this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2023

297 points (96.3% liked)

politics

18979 readers

4247 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

• Register To Vote

• Citizenship Resource Center

• Congressional Awards Program

• Federal Government Agencies

• Library of Congress Legislative Resources

• The White House

• U.S. House of Representatives

• U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

• News

• World News

• Business News

• Political Discussion

• Ask Politics

• Military News

• Global Politics

• Moderate Politics

• Progressive Politics

• UK Politics

• Canadian Politics

• Australian Politics

• New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

297

Biden sharply critisizes Netanyahu’s government, saying Israel is losing support worldwide over ‘indiscriminate bombing’ in Gaza (www.washingtonpost.com)

submitted 9 months ago by jeffw to c/politics

52 comments fedilink hide all child comments

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] givesomefucks 92 points 9 months ago (4 children)

There's been lots of misleading headlines on this, but this is the first time they didn't at least include the full quote in the article...

“We’ll continue to provide military assistance to Israel until they get rid of Hamas, but we have to be careful – they have to be careful,” Biden said. “The whole world’s public opinion can shift overnight, we can’t let that happen.”

He's not criticizing Netanyahu, and he's still saying he'll support him no matter what.

But for literal decades now Biden has been saying that to Israels government, and they've literally never listened, and Biden has never stopped supporting them.

Why the fuck are people acting like either is going to suddenly happen now?

[–] Eatspancakes84 45 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I find this so infuriating. How do they think this strategy gets rid of Hamas? Israel indiscriminately bombing Palestine is the best recruitment tool Hamas ever had. Why do world leaders with the best advisors money can pay espouse such nonsense. Is there anyone who seriously believes this?

[–] [email protected] 22 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They don't believe it. It's just a talking point to cover for genocide. Nettanyahu, like all the right-wing authoritarian fucksticks before him, is about as attached to his excuses as the Navajo nation is to water polo (spoiler: they're not). It's just some bullshit to spout while you fucking murder people. If the excuse runs thin, fuck it, just make a new excuse, but this is the one they've spent decades cultivating by literally funding hamas.

[–] MotoAsh 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Nettanyahu doesn't believe it, but Biden does.

Liberals are famously incapable of not understanding reality, just in a different way than straight up psychotic conservatives: Enlightened centrism.

Biden is a liberal Democrat, and quite literally believes things like the rule of law is unavoidable and will magically hold Trump to account regardless of what he or his AG do. They always think diplomacy with psychotic dictators will work. They never, ever understand that horrible people can wear a suit and are willing to do horrible things, too.

[–] NounsAndWords 8 points 9 months ago

The only way this strategy works is if at the end there is no one left to seek revenge. I'm sure there's a word for it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Supporting Israel is not the same as supporting Netanyahu.

Biden and Netanyahu have a decades-long relationship that has at times been strained. At the Monday evening reception, Biden said he once gifted Netanyahu a photo and wrote at the top: “I love you but I don’t agree with a damn thing you had to say.”

“It’s about the same today,” Biden said, adding he’d “had my differences with some Israeli leadership.”

Sounds like he's criticizing Netanyahu.

[–] eskimofry 4 points 9 months ago

It sounds like he loves Netanyahu

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] Veedem 46 points 9 months ago (4 children)

This is like 3 weeks over due. Cmon man

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Appreciate progress when it happens, even if it's late.

[–] givesomefucks 23 points 9 months ago

So...

You haven't seen any of the posts with his full quote where he doubles down on the US supporting them anyways?

He's not mad at the genocide. He's mad Israel isnt hiding it well.

He's been saying this to Israel for about 50 years now. They've never listened to him. And he's never stopped supporting them.

People need to stop giving credit for shit he's not doing

[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago

“We’ll continue to provide military assistance to Israel until they get rid of Hamas, but we have to be careful – they have to be careful,” Biden said. “The whole world’s public opinion can shift overnight, we can’t let that happen.”

What progress has Biden made? Fuck him.

[–] Wermhatswormhat 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

While I 100% agree with you, we don’t know the full story of what has happened behind closed doors. I’m hopeful that this is not the first time he has warned Israel that they’re being giant douches and the world is starting to hate you.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

He is still fucking supporting them, though!

[–] [email protected] -1 points 9 months ago

Yeah, but they're also our ally. I don't know why this alliance is so important, but maintaining alliances seems to be important for heads of state.

I don't personally think it's a good reason, but there's a lot of unknown rationale we aren't privy to.

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] cosmicrookie 27 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Didnt the US just veto a cease fire agreement? How can the us president critisize indiscriminate bombing but veto an attempt to stop it?

[–] masquenox 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

How can the us president critisize indiscriminate bombing but veto an attempt to stop it?

Easy. Biden is simply posturing for purposes of damage control - the massive failure of the pro-Israeli propaganda machine has taken the US political establishment by complete surprise (it is probably also calculated to "distance" Biden from the predictable batshit pro-Israeli posturing GOP candidates are going to be oozing next year).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

massive failure of the pro-Israeli propaganda machine has taken the US political establishment by complete surprise

Can you elaborate more on this?

[–] Linkerbaan 2 points 9 months ago

Israel used to have good propaganda to justify their war crimes. Recently they have dropped all pretense and now they just go

"Yeah we want to genocide all Palestinians and steal their land, and America will support us no matter what".

They're saying the quiet part out loud.

Also all the IDF propaganda such as the 40 beheaded babies and the hospital base instantly being debunked has started to show just how much israel is lying to justify their colonialism.

[–] masquenox 2 points 9 months ago

Oh... it's just this.

Nearly 40 years of uncountable amounts of treasure spent peddling Israel to the world and specifically the US - and it's coming to an end.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Probably cause he wants to please the republicans by helping Israel and also please the dems by telling the IDF to at least try and limit the civilian casualties. He really should just pick a lane here.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 27 points 9 months ago

"Keep indiscriminately killing children and families 3 or 400 more times and we may not support you anymore!"

[–] Linkerbaan 20 points 9 months ago

Biden basically said "I will always support israel no matter how much genocide they do, but the Europeans are starting to stop their support and the rest of the world hates israel with a passion now"

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago (1 children)

"Just because we keep sending you bombs, doesn't mean you have to use them all!"

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago (8 children)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/the-gospel-how-israel-uses-ai-to-select-bombing-targets

Except the bombing isn’t indiscriminate. The IDF/war cabinet have a pretty good idea how many civilians they’ll have to murder* in order to kill Hamas members hiding amongst the populace.

They’re leveraging AI to build ‘target packages’ using data from extensive drone and/or satellite footage. Locate a militant, track their movements, and the AI can roll back the footage and count how many people entered and left the building beforehand.

Targeted killings like we saw in Jenin during this summer/fall are ethically and legally tenuous, but at least a hit squad doesn’t level entire buildings…

*Yes, murder. If you know with strong confidence that your actions will kill someone/several someone’s, and do it anyway? That’s no longer ‘the fog of war caused an error’ it’s very deliberate act of violence aimed at the populace

load more comments (8 replies)

[–] NocturnalMorning 15 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Did he finally figure out that supporting Israel through this isn't a good look for him?

[–] themeatbridge 22 points 9 months ago

He still supports Israel. He's trying to thread a needle.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

He's a silent gen nursing home patient who's in the white house because our political system can't do any better. He needs to drop out of the race

[–] NocturnalMorning 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Seems pretty coherent to me when I've watched his speeches. Depending on what news you pay attention to, they paint him as a bumbing baffon who's lost his mental facilities, which I don't think that's fair to say about someone unless that's actually happening (such as for trump).

He does have a speech impediment though, which from what I understand he spent years trying to fix, so that's easy to chalk up to him losing his mental facilities if you take stuff out of context...

What you could do instead of focusing on the fact that he's old, is talking about some of his shit policies, or the fact that he should step aside and let the new generation of leaders take over, ya know, ones who will actually be affected by the coming climate crisis, and other major world events ahead.

I don't know why everyone is always so cavalier about causal agism.

[–] A_Random_Idiot 15 points 9 months ago

And who is enabling that indiscriminate bombing, Joey boy?

[–] VelvetStorm 13 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Not worried about killing kids just worried how it will make him look.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago

It's the neoliberal way.

A few hundred dead Palestinian kids isn't going to worry a wealthy neoliberal. Not their kids, not their country.

But "bombing targets going unbombed" fundamentally means "profits going unprofited" and that's an idea that brings a neoliberal out in a cold sweat.

Ultimately, Biden's statement is just his part in the pantomime. He's doing the "left-wing neoliberal" thing where he does exactly the same horrific shit as the right-wing neoliberals, but he frowns while he does it.

If he doesn't frown hard enough, he might lose the election, but it's not going to stop the children being blown up or the neoliberals profiting from it.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

2 months ago they cut off electricity, gas, food and water and now they lose support?

[–] Doorbook 10 points 9 months ago

So does he agree it is "indiscriminate bombing"? Because I think there is another words for it called "war crime"!

[–] Leg 10 points 9 months ago

I'm so tired, so very tired of the theater of American politics using human lives as sacrificial pawns, all so that the song and dance can continue for time immortal. There's no end in sight, is there?

[–] just_another_person 8 points 9 months ago

What about the shelling with White Phosphorus? Want to say anything about that?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

Surely a sharp finger-wagging will get them to stop

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

Bibi stepped in it by announcing that he out and out rejected the US proposal. Bibi also has no fan club among most American Jews.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Where are they getting those bombs?!!!! Fucking world governments.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

President Biden offered sharp criticism of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government Tuesday, calling for a change to the approach embraced by Israel’s leadership — which Biden described as “the most conservative” in Israel’s history.

The president said Israel was beginning to lose support around the world due to “indiscriminate bombing” in remarks made during a fundraiser in Washington, and urged Israel to seek a long-term solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

He added that he warned Netanyahu about repeating mistakes made by the U.S. after 9/11, while reiterating his support for Israel’s mission to “take on Hamas.”

The original article contains 97 words, the summary contains 97 words. Saved 0%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

load more comments