this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2023
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[–] [email protected] 158 points 7 months ago (6 children)

Is this arguably anticompetitive and illegal?

[–] [email protected] 38 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Nobody can even state that it's actually happening "for competitive browsers" as even Chrome users are reporting an unexplained lag/slowdown. At this point, it's just wild speculation and bandwagoning.

[–] [email protected] 101 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

You absolutely can tell what's happening by reading the source code. They are using a listener and a delay for when ontimeupdate promise is not met, which timeouts the entire connection for 5 full seconds.

https://pastebin.com/TqjzbqQE

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm sorry but I don't see how that check is browser-specific. Is that part happening on the browser side?

[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago (4 children)

They don't need to put incriminating "if Firefox" statements in their code -- the initial page request would have included the user agent and it would be trivial to serve different JavaScript based on what it said.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Easy enough to test though. Load the page with a UA changer and see if it still shows up when Firefox pretends to be Chrome

[–] TastehWaffleZ 27 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

The video in the linked article does just that. The page takes 5 seconds to load the video, the user changes the UA, they refresh the page and suddenly the video loads instantly. I would have liked to see them change the UA back to Firefox to prove it's not some weird caching issue though

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[–] nixcamic 8 points 7 months ago

I guess his question is "is that happening?"

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

Well, at least I learned that javascript understands exponential notation. I never even bothered to try that lol

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[–] [email protected] 154 points 7 months ago (2 children)

So Alphabet:

  • is the developer the most used browser (chrome) and its open source skeleton (chromium) on which most of all of the other browsers are based on (edge, brave etc)

  • has the most used video platform online, with no close second (unless you count porn, but i'd still argue its not close)

  • has the biggest share of devices relying on its platform worldwide (android)

  • has the most used search engine worldwide.

Alphabet has to be split up. Alphabet alone is deciding what shape internet will take in the future.

[–] HollandJim 29 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

is the developer the most used browser (chrome) and its open source skeleton (chromium) on which most of all of the other browsers are based on (edge, brave etc)

Which was branched from Apple’s open Webkit base, but let’s all also forget about that.

They take the IP of others, spin it a bit and then block everyone. Burn them down.

[–] nixcamic 51 points 7 months ago (8 children)

Acting like Apple didn't do the same thing with khtml to make WebKit.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)

All of those are meaningless peanuts versus

  • Owns the biggest (borderline only) web ad service in the world
[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (1 children)

My long bet: The EU will force Google Search + Ads, to separate from Youtube within a decade.

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[–] [email protected] 136 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It’s fucking incredible watching Google change from a fairly well-liked company into essentially fucking Comcast. Fucking incredible.

[–] ArtVandelay 74 points 7 months ago

Unchecked capitalism is a real motherfucker ain't it?

[–] [email protected] 90 points 7 months ago

Again? I remember they did this years ago when releasing Chrome.

[–] [email protected] 67 points 7 months ago

Incidentally, I dropped Youtube's web app like a rock when they started messing with adblockers and today they emailed me to say they're cutting down features in my account because "I don't have enough of a history".

I swear, these decaying tech firms just don't get the value of not appearing to be flailing in desperation.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 7 months ago (3 children)

All I have left to say about Google and Youtube in particular is that Youtubes ads have become so problematic, both in amount and quality (like seriously, people get banned for using innocuous words in videos targeted at adult audiences, yet completely fucked up ads are squarely targeted at children) and at this point, it's time for YouTube to die.

A new platform needs to come along.

Which will be hard since Google has such a stranglehold on the datacenter and backbone level that they have an absolute advantage when it comes to bandwidth and storage costs. Which is the main cost for video platforms like YouTube.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The only thing stopping a viable replacement for YouTube is the servers, google essentially has an infinite amount of server space, you would have to match them on that, decentralization would help bare the load, but there will become a time when even those servers will need to dramatically expand their server count.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It's not just storage capacity either. Google uses custom silicon just to keep up with all the transcoding.

https://blog.youtube/inside-youtube/new-era-video-infrastructure/

At the time that article was released (April 2021), users were uploading over 500 hours of video per minute.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The delay also does not trigger just once; it is reportedly triggered every time YouTube links are opened in a new tab.

This part got me yesterday as I was listening to music. I loaded a new video in a tab and the other tab waited 5 seconds. I thought I had paused it or something but nope, every time you load a new tab it delays all the other tabs by 5 seconds.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 7 months ago

This is the exact reason I don't trust anything hosted online. If it's something I want to enjoy more than once, I download it.

Companies hosting things online tend to become authoritarian dictators in all but name, which is their right as they own the services and hardware. But it almost always makes the end user experience shitty and overly complicated, or filled with spyware, or requires you give away your rights to privacy or lawsuit, etc..

So if there's a song or something that I like online, I'm downloading that and keeping it on my computer to listen to whenever I feel like it. I don't have the time or energy to play games with these greedy ass corporations.

And the ironic part is, that while they would absolutely froth the mouth about me doing this, they're the ones that drove me to it. It feels like an emotionally abusive relationship, are they keep making our just a man some gaslighting me, then getting angry when I fight back or tell them no.

[–] Something_Complex 25 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

It it legal? I remember when China's tech giants started infighting and the party ended up dividing them and phorbiding them to do so.

They where creating tech exclusive for their devices and internally block all other out.

I just figured if we aren't doing it here there should be a reason. (Apple appart)

Edit:guys what I'm saying matters the orthographic mistakes can be easily attribute to my lack of interest in writing the proper queen's English when any shit will do

[–] pensivepangolin 33 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I’m sorry to be the spelling guy but it’s “forbid” not “phorbid”

[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Do you have poor spelling fobia?

[–] fujiwood 18 points 7 months ago (6 children)

I’m sorry to be the spelling guy but it’s “phobia” not “fobia”

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[–] Something_Complex 7 points 7 months ago

Hahaha ce la vi

[–] [email protected] 20 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

If it's happening it's not doing so for everyone. I use Firefox and I have never seen this delay.

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please 27 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I haven’t experienced it either, but Google also typically rolls out changes in waves. They rarely just push to prod and call it a day. They push changes in waves, so they can pull the update or make adjustments if the early waves have issues.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I suspect this is less of a slowdown and more of a "we're trying to detect adblockers and in Chrome we can do most of this check on the application level which is fast, while on Firefox we have to do it the extra slow way and we CBA to optimize any of it because the delay is to our advantage."

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Nope, in the article it shows a hard coded 5 second delay.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It's a standard timeout function without any context. Most likely thing is that it tries to load an ad and if that doesn't work in these 5 seconds, then the anti adblock popup is displayed. If you don't use an adblock, the site loads instantly cause the ad is detected. If you use ublock, you see neither the ad nor the popup, so everything that's left is a 5 seconds timeout.

While it definitely is shady coding, it's an anti adblock "feature" caused by incompetent design and not an anti Firefox thing.

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[–] j4k3 14 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Someone should investigate deeply. My combo of a whitelist firewall on an OpenWRT variant and Graphene often has a bandwidth issue that is clearly software related only after watching something from YT. I can stop the apps manually and close everything related to browsing and the connection issue still exists. I can disconnect the internet from my router and the problem still persists. However, if I shutdown all 3 devices for a few minutes and bring them up fresh, the network connection is flawless. Something is running in memory, and I believe it is related to YT, but I lack the skills to break it down further. I like to run an AI server and it is simply useless if anything on the network has connected to YT since booting.

I've also noticed when family is watching YT premium (not something I use) and I am downloading a LLM from HF, the internet bandwidth of our network more than doubles on my wired connection. In between the streaming packets from YT the speed on the download jumps massively. If family is watching YT, I can actually download a LLM faster. That just seems odd to me that those are connected.

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[–] BrianTheeBiscuiteer 13 points 7 months ago (2 children)

TBF I've seen a rare behavior in FF that makes some websites load slowly for no good reason (not an adblock thing). Anticompetitive either way but Google could be exploiting this bug.

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[–] Anonymouse 10 points 7 months ago (4 children)

I post videos a few times a year to share events with family. I just posted a few yesterday. I can't in good faith continue to post to YT and encourage my family to use it as the platform declares war on their users.

But what else is there that allows me to post videos for free and my family can just watch them without having to install a new app, register for yet another service or configure some obscure plug in?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago

There's other services, but they're populated largely by the sort of people Youtube has kicked off entirely, which some people don't like.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Been like this for a long time now. Both YT and YT Music are unusable on desktop due to the lag.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 7 months ago

Eh, works fine for me. I don't watch a ton of YouTube, but I haven't noticed any real issues, and I use an ad blocker.

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