this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2023

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Revealed: Hawaii official refused to release water for Maui fires until it was too late (www.rawstory.com)

submitted 1 year ago by skhayfa to c/news

28 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The fight over water is nothing new on Maui. But the impact on the county’s ability to battle fires is coming clear.

With wildfires ravaging West Maui on Aug. 8, a state water official delayed the release of water that landowners wanted to help protect their property from fires. The water standoff played out over much of the day and the water didn’t come until too late.

all 30 comments

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago

Now the conflict includes opponents who do not want water to be used to fight fires, the governor said.

The opinions and desires of these 'opponents' is entirely irrelevant when it comes to emergency resources. The lives of those in immediate danger are far far more important than you getting to water your god damn plants.

[–] flipthetube 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Not sure how well this would work for Hawaiian cities, but San Francisco utilizes a network of cisterns in intersections that are ready to go if needed.

https://www.kqed.org/news/11622273/what-are-the-mysterious-brick-circles-in-san-francisco-intersections

Old tech, but I’ve always found it a pretty brilliant idea.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

That is for sure really cool!

[–] FlyingSquid 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

San Francisco has a big historical reason for doing that though.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In this new era, almost EVERY city has a reason to put those or similar measures in. Fires are only getting more widespread and intense as areas dry out more and more and experience record heat. It's only a matter of time until another one threatens a major urban area.

[–] FlyingSquid 2 points 1 year ago

I don't disagree, but they have the benefit of hindsight. And politicians are not very good at seeing reality until after the fact.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Fucksake

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Surely that's murder

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Seems like pretty clear-cut manslaughter at the least.

If you reduced the scale to one person on fire and someone standing next to him blocking access to a hose, it's undeniable that one party knowingly caused the other's death.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Uh... fighting over water... on an... island...?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Fresh water probably

[–] MadBabs 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It's why Hawaiians are constantly saying to tourists to stop coming.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unfortunately their economy would collapse if that happened. Tourism drives that state.

[–] AnUnusualRelic 1 points 1 year ago

Just tell tourists to BYB.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago

They would probably do better to invite tourists and use the money that comes in to build desalination plants. Israel has more than proven that any country with a coastline can have all the water they need, ten years ago everyone was predicting they'd be in water wars but now they've got such a good supply they're selling it to neighbours. Even easier for a state with so much available geothermal.

[–] thann 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

According to the sources, Manuel wanted West Maui Land to get permission from a taro, or kalo, farm located downstream from the company’s property.

We are sooo fucked

[–] thann 5 points 1 year ago

We can't save your house because the companies that own everything are fighting over which one of them owns the water

[–] ramenshaman 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I feel like you could use salt water to fight fires and keep the fresh water for drinking.

[–] Crackhappy 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That would be actually worse than letting the fire burn. You would absolutely ruin the land for plants for quite a while.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Natural fire break.

[–] reddig33 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Isn’t Hawaii surrounded by water? Is there really no system in place to use ocean water to put out wildfires?

[–] CaptainPedantic 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That would poison the soil. What's worse, burned land, or land filled with dead stuff?

[–] qwertyqwertyqwerty 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I can't say I have an answer to this, but least humans deceased would be the marker I would care most about.

[–] CaptainPedantic 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Of course, but for the cost and energy required to have a system to pump sea water in dedicated lines to where a fire was, you could probably build some water towers or a desalination plant or something. I'd be willing to bet no firefighter is going to dunk a hose in the ocean either, they'd probably end up with a destroyed pump.

Aircraft dropping sea water is probably the only way it would be viable.

[–] FuglyDuck 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And most aircraft react very poorly to salt. Catalina PBYs we’re used in the Berlin airlift to airdrop salt supplies precisely because they were already heavily protected from the corrosion.

I’m not sure that normal water dropping planes have that.

[–] CaptainPedantic 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Salt water destroys just about everything doesn't it?

[–] FuglyDuck 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not really? Naval brass/bronze has been used for ages because it’s reasonably resistant. Noble metals, too.
copper in ship’s hull paint is used specifically to keep marine critters from growing on hulls.

Then there’s the silica’s and other minerals, etc,

Typical aluminum alloys (duralumin comes to mind) are very easily attacked by salt

[–] Changetheview 4 points 1 year ago

Would be great if Hawaii and every coastal area could do this. Unfortunately, that’s a lot easier said than done. Not impossible and might be a necessary investment as fire risk increases though.

The fresh water lines already run practically anywhere developed, ready to go at the turn of a spigot or hydrant. Can’t send salt water through that without risking serious damage.

While truck/helicopter ocean water loads could be used (rinsing with fresh water after to prevent corrosion), the volume/accessibly just isn’t on the same level.