this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2025

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What we are fighting for is not ‘utopian’ or unachievable. Trumpism can and must be defeated (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 3 days ago by makyo to c/politics

41 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Bernie is 100% right now, we can't count on the Dems in DC. The working class is going to have to fight this one.

It'll require a lengthy grassroots effort from the working class any its allies. At the moment, anything you can think to do is the right thing to do until a proper movement coalesces. Get out and try things. And bring your friends along for the effort. That's how movements like this get going.

top 41 comments

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

I really, honestly cannot see Republicans listening to their constituents. By all means, it'd be great if we could get Republicans receiving all the same calls the Dems have been getting, but I think the Republicans will tell anyone who calls to pound sand. They're in the endgame now, why would they listen to the peasantry?

[–] rational_lib 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Trumpism has significant control over large parts of the media from which millions of Americans get their information. Fox and Musk’s platform X, among others, are not normal media outlets. Their basic function is not to cover the “news” but to spread rightwing extremist ideology.

Trumpism is utilizing the concept of the “big lie” in a way that has never, in this country, been seen. Day after day, blatantly dishonest statements and conspiracy theories are propagated – and repeated over and over and over again.

What is the solution to this? Because from where I sit, it looks like the strategy of plutocrats buying media and using it to push dishonest narratives in their favor is extremely successful and does indeed make what Bernie's asking for unachievable. And I don't see anywhere in the article a way to solve that problem.

I don't doubt the left can win on Lemmy. But the second Lemmy gets any actual power, watch out for the buyout.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

No need to worry, Lemmy won't ever get any actual power. Probably for the best.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

The left needs to get off their duffs and on the protests

[–] [email protected] 53 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Trumpism is a cancer. Plus, it also revived Nazism, so that's fun. So now we need to defeat both of them...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

Pretty sure Trumpism was just Nazism in a new hat.

[–] Manifish_Destiny 27 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I also know a cure for nazism. I own a couple of handy applicators.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 days ago (2 children)

It's an amazingly simple device. An idiot can operate it, and indeed many do.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

Print yours at home!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

Sometimes against schoolchildren!

[–] Xanthobilly 10 points 3 days ago

Maybe reframe this as an opportunity to defeat both at once.

[–] grue 6 points 3 days ago

You say "both of them" as if there's a meaningful distinction to be made between them.

[–] werefreeatlast 5 points 2 days ago

Its time for walk outs, marches and demonstrations like the 50 50 1 thing...March 4th at every capitol.

[–] inclementimmigrant 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

You mean the fragile, racist, white working class that got us here in the first place? Those assholes are going to get us out of this?

[–] pjwestin 8 points 2 days ago

I mean, yeah, if you want to have a populous movement, you can't do it without half the country. Also, sure, hardcore MAGA voters are fragile, racist, white working class folks, but the majority of people in these districts aren't that type of voter. Most of them are low information voters who pulled the lever for Trump because they liked one or two things he said in a speech. Even more of them are people who just didn't like either candidate and decided their vote wasn't important. We need to activate those people and get them to scream at their Senators and Congressmen if we want to stop Trump and Musk from gutting our democracy.

[–] Feathercrown 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Not if you talk to them like that

[–] inclementimmigrant 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

What that phrase those working class that votes Republican like to say for the past three decades?

Oh yeah, let me paraphrase, "Fuck their feelings".

[–] Feathercrown 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It's not about anyone's feelings. The right thing to do is the thing that will result in the best outcome, which means convincing them to vote with us rather than against us (and themselves).

[–] FauxLiving 1 points 2 days ago

There's an equally rabid and irrational type of person who identifies as being left of center and they, like their mirror image, would rather burn the whole world down than to compromise.

We have to learn to recognize these toxic people for what they are, an impediment. Just because they're using left-wing memes instead of right-wing memes doesn't mean that they're our ally.

Populist movements require everyone, this necessarily means that we have to reach the people who're not the swastika flying white supremacists and the first step is to recognize that most voters are not the extremists and labeling everyone that voted for Trump as a 'Nazi' is helping drive division and plays into the hands of the elites that seek to divide us.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Are folks considering 50501 one of the main coalescing forces? That's been the only one I've seen with any traction.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 days ago

Indivisible is also doing some good work with traction too. Local branches have been an organizer of some of those 50501 protests and they also do directed pressure on lawmakers

[–] Sanctus 6 points 3 days ago

They are working with Indivisble and PolRev. So it seems movements are forming alliances.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Is this the same working class that voted for Trump?

[–] makyo 13 points 3 days ago

You're exactly right - and they've got to be taken back or this is going to keep happening. We can't afford to let the dems hide behind gerrymandering or the electoral college anymore and ignore the obvious solution - win working class voters over. The right can win with lies and jingoism, but we can win with a determined effort to spread the truth.

[–] Beetschnapps 16 points 3 days ago (2 children)

You’re not fighting for a utopia? Well then…

WhY dO yOu SuPpOrT gEnOcIdE????

Then trump happens and here we are…

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago

But hey at least we saved Gaza, right? …right?

[+] [email protected] -7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Seems like continuing to kill babies was more important than getting elected for Democrats. They had the polling on the issue and chose to continue doing it.

[–] Alteon 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You mean the "rights of women"? I'm sure you've heard all of the arguments already, but here we go:

99% of pregnanies are performed before 20 weeks. Typically right around the time it's been discovered.
Anything beyond that is almost always due to the loss of the child or discovery of a fetal abnormality.
Restricting abortion limits personal freedom, disproportionately affects low-income women, and can force individuals into unsafe medical situations or unwanted pregnancies that impact their lives, careers, and families.

There is no good reason to restrict abortions. The world is not a better place when unwanted children are brought into it, especially when the people that are pushing to ban it don't want to offer any sort of governmental assistance to deal with said child. It almost feels like the intent isn't to help the baby, that it's more of a punishment for the woman for being "immoral".

The reason why the "elite" want to ban it is because it easily destroys your potential to get ahead. They don't want an educated populace, they want a multitude of dumb, cheap labor, and restricting abortion is an extremely easy way to get that. Also by getting conservatives to hyperfixate on this issue (and things like LGBTQ rights), it draws attention away from wealth inequality, labor right, and other systemic issues.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I was talking about the killing of babies that were already born in Gaza, but ok.

[–] Alteon 2 points 2 days ago

Ah, that reads exactly like, "Democrats need for abortion (i.e. killing babies) was more important than winning."

My bad! 😆

[–] Beetschnapps 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

…and the polling didn’t match your mood. That doesn’t mean it’s ok but doesn’t make you correct either.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Did their polling tell them to go around the country with Liz Cheney? Did their polling tell them to have a giant rally in Texas? Did their polling tell them to piss off the Teamsters? They either didn't want to win, or they're incompetent, and they need to start looking at themselves instead of blaming the voters they didn't get.

Realistically Trump is a terrible candidate, and they now lost 2 out of 3 elections to him because they want to run as Republicans light instead of appealing to their traditional base of labour.

[–] Beetschnapps 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Pissing off teamsters stands out. But Liz Cheney was one of the few calling trump out. Got no issue with that. Regardless nothing you said is a valid reason to sit out this election.

Given how more registered voters sat out the election than voted for trump… Your Liz Cheney bs isn’t worth it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Liz Cheney is a metaphor for their continued attempts of trying to convince Republicans to switch instead of getting the traditional base out. No Republicans switched to Democrats because they never do, and a whole bunch of traditional constituencies sat out the election because it looked like whether you voted for Democrats or Republicans, you ended up with Republican policies either way.

It's always been the case that the Democratic voters need to be excited, while Republicans basically just go to every election and vote the same way (Trump being an exception who managed to get some traditional non-voters to go to the polls in addition to that). If the leadership of the Democratic party chose to keep doubling down on the strategy of going after the mythical antifascist Republican voters for multiple elections, failing every time, that's not due to the voters, or the 'left', that's entirely the fault of leadership.

[–] Beetschnapps 1 points 2 days ago

This is a good explain. The evil man does figures into it. The apathy is there and the republicans are the desert and no one wants nothing.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I dont know what you're fighting for, but we've been fighting for anarchy

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Collectively fighting for anarchy is cute.

No, I'll stick with rails, schools, healthcare, water and electricity as goals.

You already have anarchy anyway. You have to give up the things society gives you, but they'd collapse anyway. You know how to start a campfire, right?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Lol wut. What kind of anarchist society wouldn't have schools, etc?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Ancap

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yeah those aren't anarchists

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

I know. Privilege appropriates everything.