this post was submitted on 09 Jan 2025
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Microblog Memes

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[–] sumguyonline 8 points 6 days ago

Water has 1 to 14 expansion rate when vaporized. It's always steam.

[–] disguy_ovahea 96 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (11 children)

I don’t know why this is constantly criticized as a method of energy capture. Liquids allow for maximum surface area contact, creating more efficient heat transfer from the irradiated rods.

Armchair nuclear physicists should release an improved model before being so critical of the most effective and reliable method of energy generation we currently have.

[–] glimse 161 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I'd not that it's criticized, it's just kinda funny that everything comes back to steam engines

[–] disguy_ovahea 48 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Oh for sure. It’s like a desire path or evolution’s crab in that way. I think I just misunderstood people’s criticisms as belittlement of the process without them understanding why it’s still the standard.

[–] glimse 18 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Fair enough, I'm sure people DO criticize it but it's mostly a joke.

On a side note, are there any theoretical energy sources that DON'T involve steam? I'm not well-versed

[–] macarthur_park 29 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Solar (photovoltaics), wind turbines, and hydroelectric are a few non-steam energy sources in use.

As for theoretical sources, some of the pulsed-power fusion concepts use the electromagnetic pulse from fusion to directly induce electrical power. But none of these have been demonstrated yet.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

I would throw all turbines into one group, steam or otherwise. Your spinning a thing in a magnetic field to create electricity. PV is particularly cool because it doesn't do that. It's a totally separate technology.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago

There's also natural gas turbines

[–] grue 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Excluding things that still involve moving fluid through a turbine or piston engine mechanically driving a dynamo or alternator while simply swapping out the steam for another fluid (too obvious), here's all the ones I could find:

[–] toynbee 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Also not well versed, but last time I saw this topic come up, someone mentioned towers that wiggle in the wind and generate energy via the wiggles, apparently interacting with liquid at no point.

edit: Also maybe this YouTuber's creation? https://youtu.be/BSxK5VagSb8

[–] disguy_ovahea 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

Yup. There are reed-like wind capture devices that generate piezoelectricity from compression. The same technology is being implemented in some nations to capture pressure energy on roadways and paths.

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[–] AnUnusualRelic 12 points 1 week ago

Steam engines are the crabs of power generation.

[–] [email protected] 124 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I don't think it's a criticism? It's more about highlighting the slight absurdity of super-high tech power generation still using the same method that has been used since the very start of electricity generation. A turbine spun by evaporated water.

[–] Omgpwnies 45 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Hey now, sometimes it's a turbine spun by falling water!

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Easy there future man.. One life-changing generation method per century

[–] Omgpwnies 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

What about a turbine spun by the convection of evaporation from a large body of water being pulled toward a dry landmass?

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Also, water is an amazing coolant. At the molecular level its hydrogen bonding contributes to a bulk property called heat capacity that ends up much higher than most other substances, meaning it can soak up a ton of energy per unit volume (and later release that energy, e.g. into a turbine). And there's even more of that heat capacity in the phase transition from liquid to steam and back. It's crazy good.

It's also super cheap and abundant. The main reason water isn't the coolant for nearly everything is that it can be corrosive. Also steam can be quite dangerous due to all that energy it carries.

[–] BussyCat 5 points 1 week ago (3 children)

The heat of vaporization is also a huge negative of using water as you need to condense the water and then reboil it which wastes a bunch of energy

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[–] dejected_warp_core 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Not only that, but we're harnessing the humble yet awesome power of phase-changing matter. The same phenomenon breaks mountains down to rubble, constantly chews apart our infrastructure, and keeps our homes and food cool. It makes a lot of sense to use that same phenomenon to do work.

Armchair nuclear physicists should release an improved model before being so critical

They would, but there are limited options for directly generating electricity. Outside of manipulating magnetic fields with kinetic motion, all we have are betavoltaics, photovoltaics, and thermocouples. And they're all kind of awful in terms of efficiency. Even chlorophyll is awesome at converting air, light, and water, into... sugar, which then has to be oxidized (burned) to be useful.

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[–] [email protected] 96 points 1 week ago (7 children)

I feel like the next big technological achievement will just be replacing water with some other fluid.

"Steam cycle? No, this is the much more advanced glycol cycle."

[–] nandeEbisu 45 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

The nice things about steam is you can get as much water as could want on earth, but something like ammonia which we used as a refrigerant for years would probably work well too and there's planets with ammonia rich atmospheres.

The interesting thing is the cycles are fairly similar at a high level, you just run out in one direction for power and the opposite direction for cooling.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 week ago (5 children)

It's why photovoltaics are so cool. Direct electricity generation without having to spin magnets in circles like neanderthals.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

"Direct" (from energy created by a massive nuclear fusion reactor in space).

[–] humorlessrepost 1 points 6 days ago

I mean to be fair, “add hydrogen to space, and wait” is a pretty simple reactor.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (10 children)

Solar is no doubt the coolest.
Hydro and wind are also very neat, going directly from mechanical to electric via generator, without a steam-turbine.

There is also a very cool fusion-category based on dynamic magnetic fields, that basically form a magnetic piston which expands directly due to the release of charged particles via fusion and then captures the energy from that moving electric field by slowing it back down and initiating the next compression.
A fully electric virtual piston engine in some sense, driven my fusion explosions and capturing straight into electricity.
Feels so much more modern than going highly advanced superconducting billion K fusion-reactor to heat to steam to turbine.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago

I swear those magnet spinners are so uncivilized.

Semiconductor gang rise up.

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[–] JayDee 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

You mean like how refrigeration and heat pumps operate?

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[–] Smokeydope 56 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (8 children)

"Dyson sphere? Boooring. Every type 1 baby species always comes up with the same idea, 'hey lets just surround a star with mirrors and directly harvest the energy! What could possibly go wrong?' Besides the fact your 80% of the way towards turning the star into a fucking bomb (don't ask how we found that out), its basic ass vanilla shit.

Look, you don't progress to a type three civilization by being uncreative hacks. Screw efficiency, the universe is our canvas and this is our art. No, we translocate entire water world planets and ice comets bigger than most moons using manufactured wormholes, hurl them into a designated star and use the steam produced to turn billions of giant turbines locked in orbit around the star. We then convert the mechanical energy to electromagnetic radiation pulses more powerful than neutron star pulsars and reflect them to nearby populated systems with mirrors. Take notes, monkeys."

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

I put together a thing for a Starfinder session where this one civilization needed a stupid amount of power in order to save their planet from a coming catastrophe. I based it on a laser propulsion method with black holes:

https://www.livescience.com/65005-black-hole-halo-drive-laser.html

In short, you shoot a laser at a black hole, and it whips around and picks up energy (blue shifting it). When it comes back at you, you get more energy than you put into the original beam (the extra coming from the black hole itself, of course). The original proposal was for propulsion, but you should be able to do it for power, as well.

I guess the only thing missing was making it heat up water to turn a turbine.

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[–] glimse 35 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This is an awful writing prompt but it's funny in itself

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (3 children)

They're mostly like that ime

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[–] IzzyScissor 34 points 1 week ago (1 children)
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[–] molten 32 points 1 week ago (1 children)
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[–] Shardikprime 17 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

"wait a second, what is the steam made of?"

"Tin. Why, what do you guys use?"

"Erm, nothing, just, continue please."

"Okay, so given the Strontium sulfide needed to balance the vapor out, we ended up with a Strontium-Tin mixture.We boys in the shop call it the Stin engine. Ain't that a blast?"

"Nevermind "

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago (3 children)

It doesn't have to be steam. You can also use the generated energy to pump water up to a location of higher gravitational potential, then use that to spin turbines as it comes back down.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity

[–] 48954246 47 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago
[–] Exulion 11 points 1 week ago (2 children)

How are you generating that energy though? Oh yeah, steam. :panic:

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Sometimes it's wind or water, and photovoltaic panels don't even use a dynamo. But classics sometimes are classics for a reason.

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