this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2024
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Showerthoughts

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A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. A showerthought should offer a unique perspective on an ordinary part of life.

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[–] [email protected] 68 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I'm guessing the phrase originated with people who have money?

[–] themeatbridge 24 points 6 days ago (3 children)

I think it's more like, people who have transitioned from having no money, where money would solve a lot of problems, to having money, where those problems have been replaced with other problems, and they are shocked to discover that having money doesn't eliminate all problems. Even if they have fewer problems than they did when they had no money, their current problems are more frustrating because they expected to have fewer problems with more money.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

I feel like there's got to be a point on the curve where the money to problems ratio is just right lol.

[–] Anticorp 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

There was a study about that around 15 years ago and the number was $78,000. Money does make you happy and solve problems to an extent, or rather it eliminates miserable situations created by poverty. Beyond that though, it's up to you to find happiness. This was 15 years ago, so that number is probably double now.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I am so far from happiness circa 15 years ago lol

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[–] bisby 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The hard part is that point moves. I have very few problems. And insurance covers some things (supposedly). But if my spouse died and I suddenly had to throw child care into the mix, and changing my schedule to be the one that takes them to/from school... I could easily wind up where new problems form. I thought I had enough money, but I only had enough money for the specific circumstances

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago

Yeah, there's definitely a z-axis on that graph which represents time. Good point.

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[–] Anticorp 3 points 5 days ago

They have more problems because they're problematic people, and problematic people with lots of financial resources create tons of problems. Money solves most problems for responsible people. Not all problems obviously, but most.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago

At least in the context of the song, I'm pretty sure the "mo' problems" part comes from the fact that having "mo' money" makes you a bigger target for people who would want to cut themselves in on your money and/or your sources of money.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 days ago

Y intercept is non-zero.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 6 days ago (2 children)
[–] JusticeForPorygon 18 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

More like

"No capitalism, no problems"

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[–] Acamon 33 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Because that's the logical fallacy of Denying the Antecedent . If "it's raining" then "the sidewalk is wet". Knowing that it's raining tells us something about the sidewalk, it's not dry, it's wet. And knowing the sidewalk is dry tells us something, it can't be raining (because if it was, the sidewalk would be wet).

But knowing "it is not raining" doesn't tell us about the sidewalk (it could be dry, it could be wet, maybe it rained earlier, maybe a dog peed on it). And similarly knowing the sidewalk is wet doesn't tell us anything about the rain.

So even if "mo money causes mo problems" all that tells us is that someone with mo money will not be problem free. People with no money might also have mo problems, the syllogism doesn't tell us about that.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The use of the word "more" in "more money more problems" indicates that both money and problems are continuous variables. Thus, the statement should be modeled with predicate logic, but with analysis. As phrased, the sentence implies a positive derivative between the two variables. If assumed to be valid over the complete range of possible values, "less money, less problems" indeed follows.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago

If assumed to be valid over the complete range of possible values,

Which is where this logic fails. The saying is usually constricted to the range of "a lot of money" to "way too fucking much money", with money less than "a lot of money" not included. Therefore the derivative can be positive, negative, zero, or anything really. Also to be pedantic technically the derivative doesn't need to exist for a positive Δmoney to yield a positive Δproblems.

[–] Lost_My_Mind 3 points 5 days ago

You forgot one thing. If it's raining, it might be pouring. But it might not be pouring. If it IS pouring however, the old man IS snoring.

So rain doesn't equal old man snoring, but pouring rain does.

[–] spittingimage 2 points 3 days ago

No money may only be one problem, but it's a very big one.

[–] FourPacketsOfPeanuts 20 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Problems Vs money looks more like y = (x - 5)^2 + 2

[–] rockSlayer 13 points 6 days ago (1 children)

On behalf of the mathematically challenged:

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago

Ideally, you would aim to have roughly 5 units of money, because at that point, you’ll have the least amount problems possible. If you have more ore less, there will be more problems. Interestingly, if you have negative money (i.e. debt) you can have lots of problems, but so do those who have a lot of money. Also, the amount of problems you have increases quite rapidly as you deviate away from the sweet spot.

[–] mkwt 12 points 6 days ago (1 children)

So what you really need in life is 5 monies. Got it.

[–] FourPacketsOfPeanuts 7 points 6 days ago

Yes, this represents that age where we had the optimal balance of being fully financed by parents yet getting a small allowance we didn't have to spend on anything. I.e. no problems. Anything else = more problems

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[–] homesweethomeMrL 17 points 6 days ago

more oxygen = more problems / no oxygen = no problems

[–] spankmonkey 14 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

More money, more problems is referring to an excess of money. As in having too much causes problems, which is on the other end of the spectrum from having too little money.

When you have an excessive amount of money it draws attention and malicious behavior. Getting wealthy suddenly often means family coming out of the woodwork to try and get some of it, sales people will want to sell things, etc.

It is a saying that leaves out the important part, just like "money is the root of all evil" leaves out the "love of money" aka greed part.

So the real saying should be "love of money is the root of all evil" and "an excess of money leads to more problems". They went with more money because it flows better.

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[–] RizzRustbolt 11 points 5 days ago

Because the predicate is false to begin with.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

No money no problems means we have moved past a currency based economy and have achieved true enlightenment as a species.

Maybe next life...

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 days ago

Cuz it doesn't, more money -> more solutions. At least that's how I use it.

[–] AgentGrimstone 4 points 5 days ago

There's a minimum

[–] monkeyman512 1 points 3 days ago

There will always be problems and money offers solutions to a lot of problems. So even if your problems grow, it's possible for your solutions to grow faster.

[–] Delphia 5 points 5 days ago

Diogenes would beg to differ.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago

More money, more problems is just a lie.

The only problem you can have with money that wouldn't be replaced or superceded by other problems is having bills. If you don't have money, it's very easy to not have bills. But then you'd also not have a home or probably anything else, which is a bigger problem than having bills.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 days ago

More like "more claims denied = more problems (for the CEO)"

[–] Lost_My_Mind 5 points 5 days ago

No money = suprisingly enough, straight to jail.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 days ago

money means more complex problems and a larger possible drop until you reach escape velocity where its almost impossible to fail unless someone shoots you in the head in new york.

[–] frog_brawler 4 points 5 days ago

I speculate the original intent of that expression was “more money; DIFFERENT problems.”

[–] Tattorack 3 points 5 days ago

Because there is a sweet spot somewhere.

[–] GrammarPolice 2 points 5 days ago

Because it is an untrue statement

[–] JustZ 2 points 5 days ago

It's because people can have more money, and they know that when they do there's more problems. But having no money is simply unaffordable.

[–] Hamknight 2 points 5 days ago

More money actually just inflicts the "mo' money" status debuff which multiplies your problems, not adds to it

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago

The consequences increase.

You know the saying: "if you owe 100 to the bank, then you have a problem, but if you owe 1 000 000 to the bank, then the bank has a problem"

For a regular person, this translates into being able to pay off 100 by working hard, but owing 100 000 is a lot harder to work off, so they'll need alternative solutions, like selling the car.

Financially speaking it's the difference between a profit/loss statement and a balance sheet. Once you have enough money, P/L doesn't matter in comparison to the balance.

Someone like Elon Musk stating that he doesn't have any money to pay is playing on this. He's all balance and no profit.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago

In both cases it's more problems, it's just that most money problems can be fixed with more money.

[–] givesomefucks 5 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Because you only get mo problems after you get mo than you need.

Not sure what it is with inflation, but a while ago the number was like 75k?

Money = happiness until you reach whatever threshold that's at today, and after that mo money doesn't get you mo happiness, just mo problems.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago

Different scales. Money is a simple -infiniti to +infiniti. Problems is a parabola that starts starts at +infiniti, approaches zero (without ever getting to zero) before returning to +infiniti when graphed against Money.

The people that coined this phrase clearly lived on the cusp of that return upward on this graph so their observation is limited to that subset.

[–] dohpaz42 3 points 6 days ago (2 children)

It’s all in the wording. Everybody has problems (even those with no money). The saying is merely suggesting that having more money doesn’t fix all of your problems, but adds to them.

If you want fewer problems, live below your means (easier said than done these days).

Rich people tend to buy rich people things (e.g., Mercedes Benz, million $$$ houses, Gucci-level clothing, etc), so they also have rich people bills. They are buying things that are at or above their means.

There’s a saying that I live by: an elephant for a nickel is only a good deal if you need an elephant and have a nickel. It helps remind me to not impulse buy stuff that I don’t need, merely because I can afford it and it’s novel.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago

Poor people have mainly one problem: affording basic needs. As you get more you have lots more problems (in quantity, not severity). How much takeout is too much? What home improvement to prioritize? Estate planning? Who to hire to do taxes? House cleaner? Security (to protect the money)? Do you know a good travel agent? Insurance, upkeep on assets, investments. Am I charitable enough? Why am I still depressed? Should I see a therapist? Do I need a personal trainer?

Choosing how to spend money, is itself a problem. The only way to avoid the extra problems is to keep living like you’re poor, but without worries. Only buy what you need and know you can afford it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago

There’s a saying that I live by: an elephant for a nickel is only a good deal if you need an elephant and have a nickel.

This is amazing.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago (4 children)

I would argue that the relationship isn’t at all linear. Just take a look at the dunning-kruger curve or the hype cycle curve to get an idea how wildly these things can fluctuate.

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