this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2024
116 points (93.3% liked)

Movies

7590 readers
277 users here now

Lemmy

Welcome to Movies, a community for discussing movies, film news, box office, and more! We want this to be a place for members to feel safe to discuss and share everything they love about movies and movie related things. Please feel free to take part and help our community grow!

Related Communities:

[email protected] - Discussing books and book-related things.

[email protected] - A place to discuss comic books of all types.

[email protected] - LW's home for all things MCU.

While posting and commenting in this community, you must abide by the Lemmy.World Terms of Service: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/

  1. Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, ableist, or advocating violence will be removed.

  2. Be civil: disagreements happen, but that doesn’t provide the right to personally insult others.

  3. Spam, self promotion, trolling, and bots are not allowed

  4. Shitposts and memes are allowed until they prove to be a problem.

    Regarding spoilers; Please put "(Spoilers)" in the title of your post if you anticipate spoilers, as we do not currently have a spoiler tag available. If your post contains an image that could be considered a spoiler, please mark the thread as NSFW so the image gets blurred. As far as how long to wait until the post is no longer a spoiler, please just use your best judgement. Everyone has a different idea on this, so we don't want to make any hard limits.

    Please use spoiler tags whenever commenting a spoiler in a non-spoiler thread. Most of the Lemmy clients don't support this but we want to get into the habit as clients will be supporting in the future.

Failure to follow these guidelines will result in your post/comment being removed and/or more severe actions. All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users. We ask that the users report any comment or post that violates the rules, and to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Tenthrow
JonsJava
116
Tom Hanks Explains Why Comic Book Movies Are Flopping (variety.com)
submitted 1 month ago by GreenEngineering3475 to c/movies
48 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Tom Hanks says moviegoers are no longer interested in VFX spectacles and are returning to good storytelling.

all 49 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 154 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

Audiences have always been interested in good storytelling. The reason the MCU took off was because it told good stories. The problem is that the stories have become too formulaic or half-baked.

People showed up for Deadpool and Wolverine, so the issue isn't about comic book movies.

EDIT: My comment about D&W isn't meant to hold it up as an example of good storytelling. As I said, the stories have become formulaic. My mentioning of it is meant to point out that many comic book movies succeed despite mediocre storytelling. You can't say "audiences are tired of comic book movies" when many are still clearly successful.

[–] [email protected] 68 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

Ah good, a Marvel movie! I wonder what will happen?

  • Super cool opening number showing how awesome it is
  • Baddy makes huge entrance and introduces themselves to the protagonist
  • Who is this guy? Let's get some backstory
  • Funny cameo
  • First fight with baddy, which is lost
  • Self reflection, pump up talk, You're the god of thunder not the god of hammers, I'm taking the suit back, etc etc
  • Huge baddy fight which is awesome, optional expensive background music
  • Quick wrap up with slight cliffhanger for sequel

Ah that was fun, did it feel similar to <> though?

(And I say this as someone who loved the marvel movies, up until endgame, but everything since phase 3 has followed this pattern very closely)

[–] jordanlund 20 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Don't forget how the bad guy is just a bigger, badder version of the hero.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 month ago (1 children)

"We're not so different, you and I"

[–] InverseParallax 4 points 1 month ago

I'm not strong enough, but I'll use my actual secret power: Screaming.

[–] Zahille7 8 points 1 month ago

I hate how we can't just have villains anymore. It's either a future corrupted version of our current hero, or we spend about a third of the runtime making our villains relatable so people can be upset when the consequences finally catch up to them.

Imo we don't need relatable villains, which is ironic because I used to think being evil for the sake of being evil was annoying, until it went away.

[–] InverseParallax 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

IW killed it, it broke us completely.

Endgame was expurgation, but we're still so overloaded, I think the only thing even remotely interesting to me has been loki. And that's just because tom h is the most charming thing to exist.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

I loved IW and even endgame. But looking back, even it followed the same pattern, just in longer form. IW ends with the first fight with baddy, which is lost. Once you see the pattern you can't unsee it

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

100%

[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I’d say hype and seeing Hugh Jackman again was what carried D&W, not really the storytelling. When you peel away the character hype and humor, the story was actually pretty bland.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 month ago (1 children)

D&W was two hours of pure fanservice. The story was extremely forgettable and I think that was intentional.

[–] TBi 6 points 1 month ago

And still a good movie!

[–] InverseParallax 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The story was a temu version of loki.

Wolverine was by far the best part, even with all the attempted fan service.

But man, the first D vs W fight, and then when he pulled up his mask.

[–] okamiueru 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

Are you suggesting that Deadpool vs Wolverine is an example of good storytelling?

Edit: I found it to be entertaining enough, I expected only fan service, and I'm glad I kept it at that. But story wise? I cannot think of a marvel movie that was worse in that regard. It didn't need to, of course... I just did a double take at this being used as an example for a good story. The borderline omnipotent and omniscient antagonist wants to destroy the universe because someone relatively unimportant didn't keep their word? groan.

[–] MintyFresh 9 points 1 month ago

I watched it recently, not expecting much. And was still disappointed.

[–] partial_accumen 8 points 1 month ago

In context of this conversation Deadpool vs Wolverine would be storytelling of storytelling. Great examples are all the breaking of the forth wall and exploration of tangential stories or actors that had short lives or never made it off a writers page. It was less a single cohesive story and more a moving about storytelling.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

yes

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I just have to chime in to say that Godzilla Minus One is a masterpiece in terms of story telling and VFX. You don't have to be a fan of Godzilla or anything in particular, this movie is 10/10 in all categories. Blew my fucking mind!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Fair point but GM1 is definitely outside of the "big spectacle movie" industry, with a very moderate budget and a big emphasis on story telling. It's really an amazing movie for sure

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Not a fan of the "modern" style Godzilla movies. This one was really good.

[–] Mercuri 2 points 1 month ago

Adding it to my watch list. 👍

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I like VFX .... what I don't like is the monotonous repetitive stories from comic book movies

  • intro of hero
  • hero is attacked by villain
  • villain wins and is more powerful
  • hero fights back but loses
  • villain is winning
  • hero fights back again ... wins at the last possible moment
  • everyone lives happily ever after
[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

*insert faceless army of disposables

[–] DODOKING38 7 points 1 month ago

Literally lots of movies could boil down to that, the fucking journey is what matters, we all the know the good guy wins in the end

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Having just bombed in an almost solely VFX production, this man knows what he's talking about

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

What was he in?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Polar Express

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

That "just bombed" is doing some very heavy lifting here, considering that Polar Express was released 20 years ago.

[–] FantasmaNaCasca 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Its some new Zemekis movie where he uses AI to go through 60 years of a person life.

Can't be bothered to search.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Here (2024) apparently.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yes, that was the joke.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Oh, didn't notice you weren't the one I replied to.

[–] acosmichippo 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

“just”?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

He was in Big, too.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

One of the prime rules of storytelling is that the hero has to have a flaw.

Superman is super. He can't lose. That's why the writers introduced Kryptonite. Captain America is a super-soldier, but is still mortal. Thor is a god, but can lose his hammer and his powers.

The problem with Superhero movies is that they all got so much power they became invincible, and boring.

Good, classic storytelling beats VFX 10/10.

[–] grayhaze 7 points 1 month ago

I'd argue that they still meet the criteria, even the seemingly invincible characters, by making their flaw caring about someone close to them. Villains these days often present a danger not because they're capable of killing the hero, but because the hero has a close personal attachment to someone that isn't invincible.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago

I feel like quality is severely underestimated here. Everybody now has 1-tap access to aggregate reviews from seasoned reviewers and regular audiences. When a movie sucks, everyone finds out and your marketing budget suddenly means nothing.

Good movies aren't guaranteed to make a profit, but in 2024, bad ones are pretty much guaranteed not to. This is completely independent of a single element like VFX.

[–] b34k 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But we can just have AI write the stories now. I’ll be much faster and cheaper than hiring writers. And I’m sure it’ll be just as good.

[–] spankmonkey 8 points 1 month ago

He is right, but overlooking a major detail when it comes to flops.

Spectacle movies have consistently flopped when the story sucks. The early Marvel movies were fairly solid and built up the brand, Nolan's Batman trilogy was pretty solid, and even Snyder's DC fare was doing ok even if it would have been far more popular by not rushing overstuffed BvS and Justice League.

But Green Lantern flopped in 2011, and like the newer movies that are flopping the massive budget was the main issue. Spectacle on its own was never enough to draw in enough butts in seats to make a $200 million dollar budget movie profitable. Even more so now that there are multiple movies with $200 million dollar budgets competing for the same viewing audience.

So yeah, the story side has been dragging down the more recent comic book movies overall but the real killer is the massive budgets. Deadpool didn't actually need to trade the spectacle for story, but they did need to aim for a reasonable amount of spectacle.

[–] roofuskit 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Funny how someone always talks shit about comic book movies after one of their movies gets bad reviews.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Nah. I've been talking shit about Marvel movies since the first Xmen movies came out.

[–] roofuskit 3 points 1 month ago

Did you star in movie that got bad reviews?

Also those weren't made by Marvel.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Lol the term "Marvel movie" didn't even exist back then! And they didn't start making movies until 4 years later...

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

If only Hollywood would understand that.

[–] jordanlund 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yeah! We demand something original and compelling! Like Megalopolis!

Oh, wait...

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/tt10128846/?ref_=bo_se_r_1

[–] GreenEngineering3475 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Or something like "Here"

wait how's that going

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/tt18272208/

[–] taiyang 0 points 1 month ago

Did Tom Hanks just watch Agatha All Along? Jac Schaeffers MCU work seems to be the only one carrying post phase 3. That and Loki at least.