this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2024
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European auto giants launch a flurry of cheaper electric vehicles — taking the fight to China (www.cnbc.com)
submitted 1 week ago by kalkulat to c/[email protected]
31 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

" ... as soon as vehicles come in the right price range next year … people will flock to buy them.”

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

China's ultra cheap EVs are subcompacts that are extremely well suited to small batteries to keep them cheap, while having good range/mileage. Small batteries can work for EVs if there is good charging infrastructure. Europe, being densely populated, is suited to having good charging infrastructure on heavily used highways, and "drive through small towns" which have cafes and restaurants suited to recharging at EU life pace.

EU/French car history is ultra well suited to small cars, where cities have narrow streets, and affordability has always been popular.

EVs with small batteries, even in EU/US, can be built cheaper than ICE vehicles by domestic brands. Battery costs are falling everywhere, but licensing/importing Chinese tech to bringing battery costs down, is path to domestic EV industry success/growth. EU is especially vulnerable to geopolitical oil extortion, from both friends and foes.

[–] LastWish 34 points 1 week ago (1 children)

So they could have done it all along?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 week ago

Yup, also American automakers get plenty of subsidies and bailouts from the government too. It was always about not wanting to make electric cars. 🤷

[–] DerArzt 28 points 1 week ago

Now do the US!

[–] riodoro1 19 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That’s what the environment needed. More people buying more cars. I bet the floor mats are 100% recycled.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

Electric vehicles are peddled as some sort of cure to climate change when they are only a bit better than gasoline cars since they still need the massive amount of infrastructure needed for cars. I stilk think that people buying an electric car when their gasoline car breaks is reasonable enough if other transport options are unavailible. But our focus should be on making those other options of transport both availible and reasonable rather than focusing on a specific drive train technology.

[–] reddig33 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In Europe. I doubt we will get any of these in North America.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 week ago

We'll take our expensive luxury EVs with 2 miles a charge and like them...er I mean buy giant pickup trucks instead that use 20 gallons of gas / mile while the world burns.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

With all the batteries being made in China, it will be very hard to compete on a level ground.

[–] sheogorath 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Don't worry; Indonesia has a lot of nickel that has plunged the nickel prices around the world, which will certainly decrease the cost of making batteries since the mines are owned by... China. Ahh fuck.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

the cheapest battery chemistry, used in most affordable EVs, uses no nickel or cobalt. "Race"/premium EVs still want to use that type of battery, though

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The only reason they are cheaper is because of the super high import taxes of Chinese EV.

I hope China starts to build giga factories in Europe, so we get cheap and good products, instead of that French crap.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Yeah for sure, china and "good products" do not go well together.

[–] urandom 4 points 1 week ago

Surprisingly, the China-made Tesla Model 3s tend to be of exceptional quality, whereas the US-made ones are not

[–] Badeendje 2 points 1 week ago

Not true, you get what you pay for. Western companies make purchases from manufacturers and once it sells well they nickel and dime their suppliers. So when they say it must be cheaper, the manufacturer sais yes.. and they replace a metal holder with a plastic once painted chrome.. to lower the price as requested. This is how it works.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

Someone is stuck in the 90‘

You know, lots of things have changed since then. Also, please check how many items in your household are made in China. You will be surprised how good their quality is, compared to the things you can buy for no money on AliExpress or Temu.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

Oh no. Stop. Please. /s

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Too little, too late.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting 29 points 1 week ago

Nobody should be excited for a race to the bottom, but cars generally have been overpriced and this seems like a pretty normal trend of price correction trying to take shape in this wonky market.

[–] Ensign_Crab -2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

So, when will the huge tariffs on EU-made electric cars start?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What do you mean? Why would Europe impose tariffs on their own cars?

[–] Ensign_Crab 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Europe wouldn't. The US would. I'm one of those US-centric users everyone gripes about, it would seem.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I don't think the US would either. Their justification for tariffs on Chinese cars was that they were uncompetitively cheap due to subsidies. Doubt EU is gonna subsidize cars, at least as heavily as China.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago

Their justification for tariffs on Chinese cars was that they were uncompetitively cheap due to subsidies.

This is mostly a lie. EU placed smaller/fairer tariffs based on those subsidy allegations, but in US, all politicians are devoted to oil oligarchy profits. 100% EV tariffs and 50% solar tariffs, 25% battery and ebike tariffs are all about protecting oil, instead of small domestic solar industry. Global warming is a lower priority than war, or making sure existing and new oligarchs have plenty of profits to fund politicians with.

[–] Ensign_Crab 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Their justification for tariffs on Chinese cars was that they were uncompetitively cheap due to subsidies.

That was the justification, yes.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Whether you agree or not with their justification (or think that it's not the real reason), they clearly have no justifications (or reasons) to impose tariffs on unsubsidized (or at least not as heavily subsidized) EU cars.

[–] Ensign_Crab 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Except for the oil lobby.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The oil lobby wouldn't be specifically against cars from another region, they are against electric vehicles in general, whether they are produced domestically or otherwise. The primary benefactors from the tariffs are the US electric car manufacturers, who would lose profit over not being able to compete with subsidized cars. They are probably the ones who lobbied for them.

[–] Ensign_Crab 2 points 1 week ago

The oil lobby wouldn’t be specifically against cars from another region, they are against electric vehicles in general, whether they are produced domestically or otherwise.

They're against inexpensive electric vehicles.