this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2024
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[–] Dayroom7485 1 points 40 minutes ago

At the all-hands meeting, Garman said he’s been speaking with employees and “nine out of 10 people are actually quite excited by this change.”

Just imagine the conversation between the CEO of AWS and some random employee.

„What do you think about the return-to-office policy I propose, Cog #18574?“ „Great idea Mr. Garman sir, really smart move from your team. Incredible thinking and leadership from you Mr. Garman.“

continues to tell people that 9/10 employees he talks to are excited to return to office.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

Another company that lays off it's talented people first, due to the meddling of a CEO where he has no business to.

[–] hihellobyeoh 9 points 3 hours ago

I forsee an Amazon brain drain about to happen.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 hours ago

So admitting that it's constructive dismissal?

[–] the_radness 53 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

Engineering is a skilled trade. We need our own union like every other skilled labor group.

[–] Lexam 3 points 3 hours ago

And they are smart enough to put us at the very bottom of the management ladder, even though we're not actually management. That way we can't legally unionize. In the U.S. at least.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

I agree. I'm in pre-sales working at an AWS partner and honestly our whole team is treated as dispensable.

[–] the_radness 5 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

I have been laid off from every job (5 in total) since the pandemic. We are a subhuman commodity. Companies that are hiring now are exploiting the market by offering lower salaries.

Meta and Amazon are in their hiring season and they'll start their layoffs again next spring or summer. And somehow, everyone forgets this fucked up cycle keeps happening in perpetuum.

We need to stop being afraid of mentioning the U word. We need better protection and rights as employees.

[–] Nastybutler 25 points 14 hours ago (1 children)
[–] baru 25 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

That's the intention behind that back to work decision.

[–] butwhyishischinabook 15 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

That's what I don't get though, these people seem to be delusional in that they think that they're a hard worker and looooove in person, so therefore every hard worker loves in person and the chaff will quit. Then they act shocked when their high performers largely leave to pursue remote or hybrid options. It's such a glaring inability to see people different from them as having any value.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 hours ago

Yep. The best people will leave first because they have options. It’s called the dead sea effect

[–] [email protected] 40 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (9 children)

I’m 47. I’m not a boomer (although I’m probably hella-old compared to most here) and I’d just like to say: What a bloody bunch of boomer-bosses.

“Have you tried disagreeing on a call! It’s hard!”

Grow up man, use the hand up feature and state your case. I work in a fully remote business and we have better meetings here than any office based meeting I’ve ever been in. Calendars are public, confluence is prevalent, slack is the lifeline (thankfully very little email) for everything; with a bunch of “banter”, hobby channels etc. We start every large meeting with a “one personal and one professional highlight” before we commence. I know the people here better than I’ve ever done my office based colleagues.

They are going to regret this. I do not know any developer who would prefer 5 days in the office. None. It’s not like Amazon’s compensation was that high. I really genuinely don’t understand how they expect to recruit.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 16 minutes ago

Ironically I've found it's harder for people to run away in remote, people don't disappear from their desks and you don't have to chase them down. If they don't message back and it's urgent, you call and if they don't pick up a call and haven't marked themselves as such something's up. People are extremely dilligent about making sure they use status' due to the knowledge that people will assume that way.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

It's tripping me up you had to point out you're not a boomer instead of just saying you're from Gen X.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago

On Lemmy, anything above 30 is a boomer, so I thought I’d start by pointing it out :)

[–] billwashere 9 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

I think you might be surprised. There’s literally dozens of us gen-x’ers on here. (I’m 53).

Luckily I work for a university and the hybrid thing is still going strong. Honestly I tend to get more done when I’m at home because the social aspect of being at work is very distracting for someone with ADHD like me.

And I hope they do regret it. The only managers I’ve seen that push for the RTO thing are the micromanagers who think they are necessary for productivity. News flash, they aren’t. The best managers set expectations, shield their employees from the bullshit above them, give them the appropriate tools and work environments to be successful, and trust them to do what is necessary.

And yes I’d never work for a Google or an Amazon. You’re a cog, a disposable piece of machinery.

[–] MattTheProgrammer 3 points 10 hours ago

These people aren't interested in hearing dissenting opinions. I'm sure they've already heard arguments for it. They just don't care. They'd rather cut costs by doing something many people won't tolerate so that they leave and then figuring it out after the fact.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

They are going to regret this?

A company doesn't remember, and the people who are actually responsible don't have regrets cuz the other option was to hand over control to someone else (hopefully more qualified).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago

Myeah I know what you mean, but the people that get associated with a bad decision at the highest level will usually end up being told by the board before they’re let go. It’s all in private, but in my experience those discussions are reasonably frank.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 15 hours ago

They are going to regret this.

I really hope they do. But now is a good time to put the squeeze on devs. Lots of people are having a hard time finding a software job and they'll be extra reluctant to do a mass exodus.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

Yup. We recently had a complaint that a collaborative meeting was difficult for people on call, so our solution was to make it 100% remote. The meeting is still collaborative, but now everyone has an equal opportunity to participate.

We do 2x in office, 3x WFH, and it's the perfect ratio IMO. Value of in-person time:

  • questions get answered quickly - easy to tell if someone is available for a quick question, and faster response than Slack
  • in-person collaboration - screen sharing works, but actually being able to point and type has a ton of value
  • casual discussions - chat about upcoming projects over lunch or a coffee break long before they're actually important, which can make future meetings smoother

All of that can be done remotely, and we certainly do a fair amount of that, but it's nice to have a little in-person time. That said, my WFH days are sacred because that's when I actually get work done.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 hours ago

The worst meetings are the ones with people in a meeting room and people online. All in person or all dialled in (even if from an office desk).

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[–] PushButton 11 points 13 hours ago

BuT nO OnE WaNtS tO WoRk AnYmOrE1

Yeah, when you're having fun pissing off people, people are pissed off.

Who would have guessed?

[–] [email protected] 163 points 21 hours ago (4 children)

Well, yeah. Isn't the whole point of these foolish office mandates to get people to quit? That way they can reduce their workforce without the cost and negative press of another round of layoffs.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Probably. But this way you have no control on who quit, with a good probability that are the better ones.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 14 hours ago

True, but execs see statistics, not people. And maybe it's cheaper to rehire the good ones with a higher salary than deal with severance packages.

[–] punkwalrus 57 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

Layoffs are not bad press. Not to the shareholders, the only ones who matter to these types. I used to think "oh, layoffs mean the company isn't doing so good," but shareholders see "they reduced cost but lost no customers, thus increasing value of the company should it be sold."

[–] [email protected] 42 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

I hate that that’s the case.

I’ve been trying to lose weight, so I chopped off my leg just below the knee. I’m several pounds down, and I didn’t have to stop eating even a calorie. It’s amazing.

The only issue is that now I don’t have a leg and exercise may be difficult….

[–] [email protected] 24 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

Yeah but that's FUTURE you's problem, not current you, so it's totally fine!

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[–] ChocoboRocket 35 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (4 children)

Go into the office and waste every resource you can.

Plug in a fan + heater + aquarium + massage pad at your desk and leave everything on constantly even when you leave

Print every email and throw it in the trash.

Make coffee 50x a day and pour it down the sink

Flush a whole roll of TP every hour

Leave sinks on in the bathroom

Use entire tubs of soap to wash your hands

Turn on the microwave for hours at a time

Heat/cool office thermometer to force HVAC into overdrive

Open new browser windows until your computer crashes and repeat until the network goes down

Company wide meme emails that everyone participates in (team building) that crash servers and dominate inboxes

Pour sugar/crumbs everywhere so there's pest problems

FORM A UNION

(nuclear option) introduce bedbugs to all your bosses offices

[–] [email protected] 40 points 19 hours ago

Ok waste paper, mhmm, coffee, yep, microwave, good thinking—

FORM A UNION

Woah, woah calm down Satan.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 14 hours ago

You forgot the most important one: deliver just enough to not get fired, but way less than you did before RTO. Then point to the stats and show the massive productivity drop after RTO.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 21 hours ago

negative press

pretty fucked up that quiet firing via RTO bullshit is less negative press than just laying people off

[–] [email protected] 35 points 18 hours ago

I mean that's a relief. Could they not leave before?

[–] Fedizen 22 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

or they could fuck up key services with delayed code breaks before leaving. Programmers working for amazon should consider adding bullshit in the software and saying it was chatgpt

Go into the office and clog all the toilets.

[–] DandomRude 19 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

Don't clog the toilets. It's not the c-suites who have to clean that up.

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[–] _sideffect 68 points 21 hours ago (6 children)

Never quit in these situations, or they win.

Do the absolute fucking minimum you can, or even less so you piss off management, until they have to fire you, which they can't outright as after a certain number of years they have to give warnings and trainings first.

[–] Fedizen 1 points 37 minutes ago

There are two ways to quit: How management wants you to or because you're forming a union.

[–] [email protected] 59 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

That's stupid. Don't get fired for cause, that only hurts you. Spend your time looking for a new job, then quit and leave ASAP.

[–] Postmortal_Pop 52 points 20 hours ago (14 children)

Split the difference, spend as much of your time on the clock job hunting and doing the bare minimum. Then quit without notice mid shift for the new job.

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[–] themeatbridge 56 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

I don't know about everyone else, but if that were my boss, they'd be severely underestimating my capacity for petty behavior.

[–] Odelay42 37 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

This is the part not being reported in the news.

Many of us are simply working half as much as we did when we were remote. It's not worth trying to impress these people. They hate us.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I don't work for Amazon, but when my employer announced mandatory RTO I simply included travel time in my day. At home I could do 8 hours of pure work. RTO days were about 6 hours of work and 2 hours of commute.

[–] Odelay42 1 points 9 hours ago

Yes, absolutely agree.

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