People tweeting stuff. We allow tweets from anyone.
RULES:
Yeah universities should be about academics. Not sports. In fact, Universities, in my opinion, should just be banned from HAVING sports teams. Do that shit outside of school lmao. You shouldn't be getting ACADEMIC scholarships because you can... "throw ball good".
Counterpoint: universities exist to teach young people to be competent, well rounded members of society, including exposure to quality academics, music, art and sport. If you just want job training, go to trade school; if you just want academics, go to the library.
So before I get into this, know that I'm biased as a colligate sport fan and a former NCAA athlete. But this is a bad take. Sports provide all sorts of benefit both internally and externally for the university. It is true that some athletic budgets are insane, and for what it's worth I agree that the salaries that get paid are insane. But this is simply the price of an arms war. These colleges want the best facilities and coaches. And it's not ~just~ for the dick measuring contest, though make no mistake that is absolutely part of it. But all sorts of studies show that general contributions and academic donations in particular increase with athletic team success, notably championship winning teams. People like to belong to a community, and sports fandom is one of the most tried and true sources of community. Plus the tv contacts for the so called revenue sports would make an oil tycoon blush. The presidents of these schools continue to invest in these programs because they continually prove to be an excellent roi. And I firmly believe that these same presidents know more than either of us about running their universities. And all of that is aside from what these sports provide to the most important stakeholders in a college, it's enrollees. Again recognizing my bias here, but the only reason I made it through school to get my 2 degrees that I use professionally was the sports team I trained with. These teams provide structure to the college life, something that can be hard to maintain as you essentially start a new life. Plus, sport and exercise prove to boost academic performance both on the short and long timescale. Most institutions report higher average GPAs in the athletic department than the general population. Ever notice that elite academic institutions also tend to have elite athletic programs? This isnt always obvious as it's often non revenue sports outside of the state schools that are in the aforementioned dick measuring contest. And even schools that aren't know for athletic or academics will still tend to offer intramural sports as again they are a massive boon for the students but I feel like at this point I'm straying from the original point. All in all these athletic programs are good for both the institution as a whole, and those that study at them.
tl;dr Sports good for college
I would agree with you but the statistics are so far out of proportion in America right now. Across the country you have many schools who can barely fund educational departments while continuously increasing sports funding. This happened at my college recently, several times. We lost several history classes due to the football team requiring more budget.
So what you have instead is this awful cycle where they make so much more money from investing in sports than education, so they raise the education prices to fund both. Yet the government is subsidizing or at least fronting the cost for students. So now you have even less pressure to continue being an actual college. They begin to chase sports to the moon at the cost of all else.
Then you have the actual effect of sports players on the college itself where they attend. I know some hard working athletes with legitimate degrees, but those athletes are the first to tell me that the rest of the athletes are there for worthless degrees. So now you have to account for the fact that athletes are an investment in facilities and arenas and departments as well. Further skewing the purposes of the college.
The whole system is beyond broken and colleges shouldn’t have to depend on anything except education costs to survive
there's a lot of things wrong with college sports but kids getting a chance to get higher education that otherwise might not is absolutely not one of them.
Yes, but that opportunity should be granted based on economic need and a demonstrated ability to work hard, not based on athletic ability, because athletic ability is unrelated to your ability to study economics or physics or philosophy.
Just my personal experience, but I've found that the ability to work hard and push through doing things you don't want to do is very much transferable between sports and academics.
It completely excludes a lot of people with physical disabilities or health problems though. I promise you that the kid with a chronic health condition that has them in and out of the hospital while they're getting through school is a harder worker than the captain of the football team that's just maintaining their GPA to stay on the team.
Edit: Also, it's sexist as hell. The best scholarships are for men's sports and many women's sports don't get anywhere near the same support as men's sports, even in equivalent ones like soccer and basketball. There's no women's football league, and the women's leagues for other sports are abysmally supported.
Of course. It shouldn't be the sole criterion for selecting students. But if it does reflect your academic potential, then I don't see why it can't be one of the criteria for a subset of students. Everyone has different ways of expressing their abilities and different limitations. There's no known single metric that can accurately capture that for everyone.
I think the bigger issue is the lack of scholarships for non-athletic activities. There are many other things that colleges and universities could give scholarships for that would foster a more diverse and inclusive student body, but the preferential treatment given to athletes actually impedes that through diversion of funds.
I was rather happy when my alma mater decided to use a pile of alumni association money to build a massive LAN center and start pro e-sports teams instead of starting a football program. The e-sports program will give scholarships not just for the gamers, but also for theater kids that become shoutcaster personalities, and they use the LAN center as a way to beta test the games coming out of the game development programs. They really emphasize the educational aspect of it as well and push the gamers to get involved in game design or creative writing majors/minors so that their scholarship activity can actually benefit their career after school. It does help that the school is down the road from Acti-Blizz, so internships are plentiful.
There are other ways for the schools to support potentially profitable student activities that don't exclude people unable to participate in sports.
Nah, it isn't sport's fault that academics hasn't found a marketable avenue for spectators to appreciate the craft. There needs to be more innovation in competitive aseptic technique or fantasy math league.
Upon reflection, you guys are correct. My opinion has been changed, though it wasn't a comment I put too much thought into. Appreciate your opinion & commentary
atheletics have been a vital part of the education system since schools have been a thing
I'm just going to tuck this in here: https://fiscal.wa.gov/Staffing/Salaries
It isn't just the highest paid university staff it is often highest paid state employees
UW and WSU football programs aren't even good, why are they paying them that much?
Did you see the amount A&M gave their last coach to GTFO for being bad?
As an Aggie.. this hurts because it's true
Because they generate more than they make.
This would be far more convincing coming from someone that isn't an evangelical religious nutjob teaching at a school with barely enough students to field an American football team (yes I know it's Australia) much less be competitive in any major sports.
Controversial thesis: if you teach creationism in college as a factual accounting of history, then it's not a university. It's a cult with a side hustle in tertiary education.
A society which charges students to acquire knowledge values neither.
Reminds me of a random quip about how American universities are real estate holding companies with sports team subsidiaries that also, on occasion, also award academic degrees.
I'm pretty sure the football coach is the highest paid state employee since our big university is a state school.
Highest paid public employee not just at the universities but compared to every public employee in the state.
~~These are the eight where it isn't a football coach as of 2020:~~
edit: screw it couldn't format it to look good
If you live in the southeast, Midwest, or Texas/Oklahoma I can almost guarantee you the head football coach is the highest paid state employee by a considerable margin.
The highest paid high school employees are often the coaches. A lot more money goes into the football than anything else...
And if you don't have an elite sports team and instead have a multi-billion dollar endowment then you're a hedge fund with a side hustle in tertiary education.
I like that diagnosis. It can be used elsewhere.
If the highest paid person at your software company does not write software then you are not a software company but a sustaining a rich person by exploiting employees' limited time on the planet company.
If the highest paid person at your delivery company does not work as a delivery person then you are not a delivery company but a sustaining a rich person by exploiting employees' limited time on the planet company.
If the highest paid person at your construction company does not build and construct things then you are not a construction company but a sustaining a rich person by exploiting employees' limited time on the planet company.
Huh there is a trend here.
Coach Marty Daniels would agree with you. Classes are bullshit.
Because it's a government position with an extremely noncompetitive salary. The role I'm in right now, that college role's salary is about 40% of that.
You want to know why schools are getting ransomware so frequently?
And that thesis doesn't mean shit.
You gonna downplay my 11 years of blood, sweat, and tears for a PhD because I went to a state school? I'd be happy to prove how much bullshit that is against any ivy League engineer you know.
An Ivy League education is an expensive luxury product for the parents. That way they can brag to their peers about their children. It's well known that the main benefit of an Ivy education is networking. That's because of the connections that the parents have, not because the education is better.
With the exception of maybe Princeton or Columbia, top research isn't coming out of Ivy League schools. And the good research they do have is because they pay the top people more. They don't have smarter students, they just have more resources.
MIT isn't an Ivy. Cal Tech isn't an Ivy. Stanford isn't. UC Berkeley and University of Michigan definitely aren't.
With the exception of maybe Princeton or Columbia, top research isn’t coming out of Ivy League schools.
Doesn't Harvard have one of the most advanced medical programs in the entire world? Perhaps the best even. Especially in fields related to cancer research.
Mayo, Stanford, University of Michigan and University of Minnesota all turn out more research than Harvard does, and those are just the tip of the iceberg. Harvard is a big name, but they aren't making the big breakthroughs anymore.
Also the ivy league medical schools don't provide as much in the way of community medical services as the others do. To my knowledge, Harvard isn't out there running critical access hospitals in rural communities at a loss like Mayo and University of Minnesota are.
(And I'm absolutely positive that there are a bunch of other state universities and medical programs that do just as much as Mayo and University of Minnesota in terms of community medical services, but I'm just not as familiar with them )