submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

Having dropped New Vegas in the past due to lost interest, I decided to try this game out finally since a friend of mine was having a fallout 3 playthrough himself. It was it 8 bucks, so I figured why not. I have to say, I put way more hours into this game than both other Bethesda games I've played through (Skyrim and Oblivion) before even finishing the main quest line. The combat was excellent in my opinion, and I (seem to be in the minority of people who) really liked the story. The choices it forces you to make sometimes really had me feeling emotional at times. I also played it with some minor mods installed, just some custom outfits and real world guns for immersion. Nothing to break the story or anything, though there are a few DLC sized mods I'm eyeing up to play in the future. Overall I seriously enjoyed this game, I've noticed online it seems to be regarded as one of the least popular mainline games but I think it's become my favourite Bethesda game I've tried so far honestly. Seriously recommend anyone who hasn't played this yet to at least give it a try. It really pulled me in.

Edit: Since I'm done with F4, got New Vegas running with some nice mods to add gritty aesthetics and real world weapons. Giving it another try 6 years after I initially tried it and so far I'm way more into it!

Edit 2: more specific context

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[-] [email protected] 45 points 1 month ago

Fallout 4 kind of in a weird place where it's simultaneously a bad Fallout game and arguably the best Bethesda game. How much you like it really just depends on which of those things you're more into. I've personally never really gotten the appeal of Bethesda games. I usually end up spending 90% of my time going through my inventory analyzing the price to weight ratio of all the worthless junk I've accumulated, and the worlds have always just felt really shallow to me personally, but clearly I'm in the minority. I am sort of curious why more people seem to have agreed with me on Fallout 4 than on Skyrim though. I guess maybe it's just that the people who talk about it the most are more likely to be Fallout fans than Bethesda fans.

[-] [email protected] 36 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Fallout 4 kind of in a weird place where it's simultaneously a bad Fallout game and arguably the best Bethesda game.

Thank you

That's how I've described fallout 4 since it first came out. Nice to see someone else had the same thought. It's a great game and I've put a ton of time into it and I play through it every 2 years at most.

But it's really not a great fallout game. The game overall is excellent but it feels the least fallout-y, to me at least.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Play Morrowind and your opinion might change on them having to be shallow. It's hard to get into, but it is the 3D one that takes its world very seriously.

For example, there's a faction that uses magic and levitation is a thing in Morrowind. Their buildings are built vertically with shafts connecting floors you almost have to levitate through. Skyrim did these in the DLC that includes some of Morrowind, but they just made them floaty elivators, not a skill your character can use.

It is hard to get into though. The key thing to know is its actually an RPG. Your character stats matter more than your player skills. If you aren't trained in using a sword, you aren't going to be able to use one effectively. The game won't stop you from trying, but you'll miss a lot. Also things like using up your stamina sprinting (what feels like normal speed) and being tired makes your character tired and they can't hit things. They'll also be worse with bartering/talking with people because basically they're standing there drenched in sweat and panting, which doesn't look nice and people don't really like dealing with it.

Bethesda has strayed far from this path though and I doubt we'll ever see it come back.

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[-] [email protected] 27 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I loathe Fallout 4 for all the things the game has robbed the franchise of.

Most dialogue choices boil down to "yes / sarcastic yes / tell me more / not right now"

I really hate the settlement building, but I feel like I need to interact with it to play properly - it's too powerful to ignore when playing on Survival.

I would have preferred if the settlers improved things themselves over time if the resources were available for them.

The three factions make the moral choice a no brainer. The Institute are slaveowners, the Brotherhood are Nazis and the Railroad are the Underground Railroad (very clever Bethesda).

(Minute men is not a real faction, they're tertiary)

[-] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago

Also, the only temporarily impactful decision you make is which flavor if the final mission you'll do. You don't actually have to choose one until the very end. You can somehow be not just friendly, but high rank with all four at the same time, despite the conflict of interest.

They make you think your making choices sometimes (though honestly rarely in F04 because of the dialog system you mentioned), but you never do really. It's an alright survival shooter thing, but a bad RPG. You choose abilities, but you rarely choose a role. You're given your role at the start, and your only choice is to follow it.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

Heh, I'm probably the opposite. I like the settlement building capability in the engine, but don't feel that Bethesda's done a lot with it in any of their games.

In Fallout 4 you can make pretty settlements, but there's a very minimal degree to which layout interacts with the game. Putting some walls up around expensive stuff and making enemies need to go past turrets or guard posts helps a bit, but it's basically just SimArchitect. Lay out stuff how you want for fun. That's not bad as such, but I'd like to have more interaction with the game world. Also, using settlements without the Local Leader ability to let settlements trade goods was a pain, which was one of the few useful things in the Charisma tree. There is one quest where one does lay out defenses for a significant fight, bur that's about it.

The Sim Settlements mod introduces settlements that build themselves, which gives you elaborate, evolving things without having to manually do all the work of building them (and can take advantage of newer hardware with larger settlements). That's nice, but it really just provides an opportunity to rebuild nice-looking stuff in without the scrap-hauling and placement drudge work. The mod adds a (fairly extensive) questline, but the actual layout of the cities again doesn't matter much. Avoids the need for Local Leader as a quality-of-life perk, so provides more character build flexibility.

Fallout 76 has some game-important roles to a player's CAMP, but it's basically providing convenient access to workshops and a player vendor. Defensive layout does matter somewhat-more, as attacks when a player isn't present are actually simulated in the game world. You can take and hold certain map locations, sorta a tower defense mode, but there's minimal reward in the game for it. The point is still mostly being Sim Architect for player CAMPs, except now you can show your creations to other players. CAMPs are much smaller than Fallout 4 settlements. You can also have Shelters, which are little areas to free-build off the main world. Like CAMPs, but with a few restrictions, like the inability to have resource-producing items (and automated resource production is very limited, rarely worthwhile). Some players have done neat things that add to the game, but again, just doesn't feel like there's much "game" to it. Fallout 76 has some hard limits on ability to store things in a CAMP -- inventory limitations are a core part of the game.

Starfield has multi-base spanning automated production, and automated production matters, more like a very limited Factorio. However, you can pretty much play the game and ignore that aspect, as the main purpose of getting resources is...building more bases. IIRC, bases don't get attacked when you're away, and defenses aren't an issue. I guess that's nice for people who don't like base-building, but it felt like kind of a pointless loop to me. Not like, oh, Egosoft's X series, where you build out a space empire to get more stuff that unlocks more things. You can buy player homes, but they never felt as useful to me as Home Plate in Fallout 4, as I just usually wasn't passing by the player homes, and the ships are generally more available. I think that those are more aimed at people who want to do interior decoration. Starfield does let you modify ship interiors, but there just isn't a lot of gameplay point to it, though it's probably where I spent the most time. There just isn't that much that happens in your ship.

None of those are bad things, but the base-building aspects just feel kind of decoupled from the game, like a kind of bolted on architectural program. If you want to create your dream space home, I guess that that's fine, but I was kind of hoping for something that heads more in the Sim City or Caesar direction, where there's real gameplay associated with the settlement you build. If one wanted to do just aesthetics, maybe in Fallout 76, let players build new stuff in contests and then whoever builds the neatest gets some award and the structure gets incorporated into the base game, something like that.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Yes!! I felt the same way!

Particularly the ham fisted way it's written, you're really led to choose the railroad path, but I felt I never got a proper explanation on how the institute was bad (the why is clear).

I ended up going with the institute and I got a really underwhelming ending

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

The institute are bad because they're basically "scientific racists" - they diminish the experienced suffering of conscious beings, even though they're anatomically identical to Real Humans™

They've got the power to fix so many problems upstairs, but they're so far removed from the suffering of others that they don't know what the problems even are.

They're essentially the 1% in our world. Bunch of privileged cunts who think they can fix the world by throwing money at a problem without really understanding the plight of the working class.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I put in 1300 hrs into fo4 just for the settlement building. With mods though.

"I heard people complaining about the bed situation...." NPC carrieing a bedroll on her back.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

Just out of curiosity, if you don't mind sharing, which mods did you use? Like, just stuff that adds more items to the world, or stuff that changed gameplay linked to the settlement-building stuff?

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[-] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago

It just depends what you go into it looking for. If you want a deep RPG you won't get it, and I found the story enjoyable, but just all right, but not horrible or anything. I do also really enjoy the gameplay.

The shooting won't change the world, but it is enjoyable, and I really like the scavenging and modification of weapons and armor, and as a motivation for exploration it's great.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

That part about weapons and armour rang true for me as well. I spent a lot of time just wandering the commonwealth looking for junk to upgrade with and levelling my gunsmith up as a result. I think this is the most I've really explored in a game. Personally I didn't really go in looking for anything so I was pleasantly surprised. But I definitely can see how say, someone going in for full role playing immersion from a game wouldn't feel quite the same.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago

I think that's a lot of what happened back when it released. The most recent Fallout game before then was Fallout New Vegas, and when it comes to a narratively deep RPG that's almost an unfair fight compared to anything Bethesda has put out, so of course Fallout 4 fell very short of that mark.

But it does have successes in other areas. For the first time in, shit, any Bethesda game ever I found the animations and feedback of moment to moment combat actually enjoyable, the junk gathering and upgrading is an extremely addictive loop, and the game does look genuinely pretty and immersive, though the character animations still let it down.

I liked it to the tune of multiple hundreds of hours, myself.

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[-] chazwhiz 3 points 1 month ago

Which modern Fallout game would you suggest for someone who loved the first 2 and generally prefers classic (and modern classic style) RPGs and deep stories?

[-] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If by modern you mean Fallout 3 and beyond, then absolutely New Vegas and its DLCs. You will not get anything of a deep story from any of the other offerings except maybe Fallout 4's Far Harbor, but that comes too little too late if you might not tolerate Fallout 4's flaws to get there.

New Vegas doesn't play very well in terms of combat, hello Gamebryo engine, but it has a complex story with many possible directions and endings, and many factions that are much more than black and white. Your character's own dialogue is also far better written compared to Bethesda's offerings and has a lot more agency in the world. I think you will find enough to enjoy there as long as you can get past the hump of some middling (even for its time) shooting.

A lot of that can be owed to the staff similarities between the original Fallouts and New Vegas, Obsidian's strong point, particularly Josh Sawyer as director.

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[-] Donebrach 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I’ve been replaying and somewhat enjoying Fallout 4 recently too and all I can say is Bethesda made a very good (and janky) video game back in 2003 and managed to reskin it into 5 different games over the past 20 years fairly well—only blatantly showed its age with Starfield because they removed all the (now out of date) modernizations introduced in Fallout 4. I will not buy The Elder Scrolls VI if that ever comes to market.

Just throwing it out there if you haven’t played it, The Outer Worlds hits all the fallout notes in a tighter package (also made by obsidian who made New Vegas)

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[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago

Settlement management can get tedious and be a large time sink. Sim settlements 2 is actually not bad. You can off the most annoying ones on “mayors” to control. Show up later and add things if needed.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

It revived the game for me. Changed settings so it would grow without my tedious input, so thankful for that. Show up to settlements over time to find evolving cities that are actually worth visiting and make the game feel alive, like you didn’t build every shack in the wasteland personally with the toaster you hauled from a national guard building.

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[-] Lemminary 10 points 1 month ago

I love FO4! One of my friends kept telling me to get it and play it. So when it was on sale I bought it in a heartbeat.

My only gripes are the inventory management and the depressing landscape, so nothing a couple of mods couldn't fix to make life easier and not depress the hell out of me.

[-] FenrirIII 3 points 1 month ago

Snow mods in the summer. Desert mods in the winter.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago

just some custom outfits and real world guns for immersion

[-] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago

Kind of funny when you know Fallout is a satiric version of USA society

[-] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago

I lost interest in this game half way through. I really don't like how the enemies level up with you. I was about 2/3rds through the main quest line when the bad guys became such bullet sponges that it wasn't fun anymore. Like, multiple nukes to the face and they still keep coming.

I far prefer games where the enemies scale by location, not the player.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago

This is my running complaint with most Bethesda RPGs. Just about everything scales by player level, which can put you in situations where enemies are downright impossible to kill if you're too spec'd into non-combats.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

Oblivion: why level up when I can stay level one and steamroll everything?

New Vegas: Just another Bethesda contracted game and I’ll just head straight north and OH GOD CAZADOR—

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Haha yeah NV lets you know shit is real awfully fast.

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[-] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's a bad game that does some things that really make it worth playing, imo. The gunplay is mid and the social systems sucks so much ass, but not many games go for the scavenger fantasy like fo4. Throw some mods on top of the shaky base and you've got the only real good post apocalyptic survival game i can think of. Pick a spot to build up while living like a rat and you might get a few dozen hours of genuine fun out of it.

I personally recommend Frost or that modpack that turns the game into a survival horror, because the game is at it's absolute peak when you are actually desperate for three more rounds in your revolver.

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[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

It was actually the first fallout game I played, and I've replayed it a couple times since then, I really like it.

That's a great came to play for the first time, especially with qol mods.

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[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Fallout 4 was a top tier fallout game with mods. The more you mod it, the better it gets. Fallout 4 with no mods is meh.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I wish that there were an easier route to just let a random player get a reasonably modded install. It's nice, but getting there is a big barrier. Something like what Wabbajack does, but at a Steam level, like "install community DLC", and in a way that one could manage mods from that point.

There are hundreds of mods that reasonably improve the gsme, and sorting through and comparing all of then is time-consuming.

That is, make it really accessible to users not familiar with modding who don't want to put a lot of time in, but let it be a "new base install" for most Fallout 4 players that could itself be nodded.

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[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The VR version is fun too but not at all worth $60. It’s basically just a polished VR mod.

I really enjoy the thrill of seeing the world in VR and especially being in power armor.

If you can get it on sale (anything under $30 is a fair price, IMO) and enjoy VR games and Fallout, definitely recommend.

[-] Gigan 4 points 1 month ago

Did you like the settlement building or no?

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

I got so hooked into the settlement building. Downloaded a handful of settlement mods and spent 3 whole days repairing and outfitting the Castle. Then something happened to my mods folder and I had to redownload them all and didn’t make note of the order I had them in before. Loaded in the game and everything was broken/invisible. Huge letdown and I took a 7 month break. Now I’m getting back to it and finishing the main story before doing the DLCs

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

PLEASE PLEASE try the survival mode. It changes the game so much. It reminds me of hardcore games of the past, I have to actively plan for the game and can't just gung ho rush things.

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this post was submitted on 10 May 2024
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