this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2023
276 points (89.9% liked)

Lemmy.world Support

3251 readers
26 users here now

Lemmy.world Support

Welcome to the official Lemmy.world Support community! Post your issues or questions about Lemmy.world here.

This community is for issues related to the Lemmy World instance only. For Lemmy software requests or bug reports, please go to the Lemmy github page.

This community is subject to the rules defined here for lemmy.world.

To open a support ticket Static Badge


You can also DM https://lemmy.world/u/lwreport or email [email protected] (PGP Supported) if you need to reach our directly to the admin team.


Follow us for server news 🐘

Outages 🔥

https://status.lemmy.world



founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html

Many of us do not trust Facebook and anything it is associated with or swallows up.

EDIT:

https://techcrunch.com/2023/07/05/adam-mosseri-says-metas-threads-app-wont-have-activitypub-support-at-launch/

"Instagram head Adam Mosseri said "

““Soon, you’ll be able to follow and interact with people on other fediverse platforms, such as Mastodon. They can also find people on Threads using full usernames, such as @[email protected].””

“We’re committed to building support for ActivityPub, the protocol behind Mastodon, into this app. We weren’t able to finish it for launch given a number of complications that come along with a decentralized network, but it’s coming,” he said.

“If you’re wondering why this matters, here’s a reason: you may one day end up leaving Threads, or, hopefully not, end up de-platformed. If that ever happens, you should be able to take your audience with you to another server. Being open can enable that.”

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Haha 190 points 1 year ago (4 children)

To me it’s simple. If Zuck has a part in this, I will find somewhere else to go.

[–] Cosmonauticus 151 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I came here specifically to avoid meta and reddit

[–] [email protected] 66 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Same. If Meta isn't chased away, I'm leaving the Fediverse. Once I ripped the reddit bandaid off, my loyalty to any one site evaporated. I won't feel a thing if I need to find somewhere else to go.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If this instance doesn't defederate from Threads, I'm sure plenty of others will. And you can always host your own and lose very little functionality. That's the entire point of the fediverse. Tying your view of the fediverse to one single instance is kind of missing the point.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

My concern is the embrace, extend, extinguish method that will ruin the Fediverse regardless of the number of instances, as big tech giants are so adept at doing. I don't have an optimistic outlook here. Meta is here for a reason, and they aren't going to just go away now that their foot is in the door.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't see how they can accomplish that though. They can't really bring any value other than lower barrier of entry to users. They're exposed to other instances and everyone can point out what they're giving up when they can literally lose nothing by switching to a different instance.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Everyone read one article on ebrace, extend and extinguish and now they're experts on the subject matter

For all I see is that the biggest threat Threads brings to us is that by federating with them you're going to receive a shit ton of facebook quality content

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] MeetInPotatoes 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yup, all that matters is doomscrolling and shitposts, and we can all get our fill of content without any corporate fuckers fucking this shit the fuck up.

Also, Fuck spez and fuck Reddit.

[–] psycho_driver 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Save some fucking for Ajit Pai while we're at it.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

I would be even more disillusioned and disappointed than I currently am, I will admit it.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Annoyed_Crabby 41 points 1 year ago

Yes. They have destroyed enough internet they shouldn't allowed to touch this.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

hold your horses guys. But seriously, lets not put too much pressure on the Admins, they're doing a fine job maintaining the servers. I guess we wait how Meta will federate and let the admins take time to decide.

[–] ArianaGrande 75 points 1 year ago

Please don't federate with the Zucc

[–] AcidOctopus 69 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If we don't defederate from the outset I'm just gonna join another instance that did. I didn't sign up for Lemmy because I wanted fucking twitter.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Strolleypoley 47 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It's very simple. Facebook/meta bullshit on here and I am moving to -tildes.

Fuck corporations. I hope they all burn and I hope their creators and their born and unborn offspring get cancer and die.

[–] MBM 10 points 1 year ago

Why Tildes and not just another instance? Tildes is still headed by a single person

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (9 children)

If you do move to tildes, would you mind sending me an invite?

load more comments (9 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] ayyndrew 29 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I have done a little bit of reading but I'm still not sure what the issue is. Is it that Threads will take over and defacto become the entire Fediverse? Because I think that would happen whether or not Mastoson/Lemmy instances choose to defederate. Is privacy the concern, and if so, wouldn't it only affect people using Threads?

[–] jennwiththesea 26 points 1 year ago

FB has proven time and again that they don't care to moderate their spaces, and they increase engagement by presenting the most toxic and angering things to you. Community groups in particular are absolutely hideous on there, full of people angry at the (insert minority group) walking down the street. I don't want that in my life again, and I don't want it infecting lemmy. If I did want to engage with that type of content, I'd make an account on Threads.

That said, I'm not out here making demands of our admin and moderators right now. They're busy just keeping this place running. The threads situation won't be going away tomorrow, so it can wait a hot minute.

[–] YellowtoOrange 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

One concern would be:

  1. Say Lemmy/kbin grows organically to 1 million users.
  2. Threads federates, with 100 million users

Do you want these users flooding Lemmy? I don't want to be biased at the theoretical type of user on Threads, though if the right wingers/trolls/extremists migrate to Threads because they think it's "more open" then that may be an issue. If it's full of soccer moms posting pictures of their kids, or karens complaining about everything, that may be an issue.

Multiculturalism is great, I want to hear new ideas, though some areas are breeding grounds for lower-think, it seems. This probably sounds prejudiced or elitist.

I want to talk to the vanguard people who take the risk and are openminded and come to lemmy, not necessarily the "lemmings" who join facebook because they love facebook and don't want to, or can't, delve deeper into why facebook is one of the worst forces in media at the moment.

I am not prejudiced (I hope) against "regular people" and "soccer moms", though think that if 10 million soccer moms came here, the discussions may not be as... interesting, as they are.

Also, I don't know what lemmy instances will think about downloading masses of data from threads.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I think this will be pretty manageable by finding and using communities that are well-run and have explicit rules and standards of behavior that are enforced. If a community is explicitly meant for serious conversations about, I dunno, music theory, that is enforceable, and if Suburban Subaru Sarah actually wants to join in on that, all the better, but pics of her kid's soccer game will belong in a different space, just as much as pics of some nerd's Warcraft raid do too.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (7 replies)
[–] marsokod 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because this is reminiscent of what happened with XMPP. In the old days you had many closed source protocols for instant messaging. Then XMPP came along and started gaining steam. At that point, major platforms started using it, with everything federated. Someone with Google could talk to someone on Facebook and with someone on myown.sillyserver.net. Everything was going great. But obviously the majority of people went with the easy option to go with Facebook or Google, meaning you still had a federated network on the paper, but with a few actors weighing way more than most.

Obviously at that point, they slowly defederated, preventing their customers from talking to their contacts on other platforms. But most of their contacts where on the same platform, so the cost of migrating was higher. That's how the federation ended. XMPP still exists, and was actually used by WhatsApp in a non federated way, but it is the shell of itself with not a lot of people using it.

A social network strength is in its number. Accepting Meta into Fediverse creates a very real risk that they will try an embrace and extinguish strategy and in the end you will have most people on Meta and just a niche of people on Lemmy/Mastodon, similar to how it was a few months ago.

The goal of the fediverse is to find the proper balance between having multiple platforms big enough so that moderation and technical management can be done by knowledgeable people, but small enough that they cannot decide willy nilly to defederated. Having Meta in the fediverse would very probably break that balance.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] cynar 14 points 1 year ago

It's a combination of EEE (Engage, Enhance, Extinguish) tactics, as well as toxicity overload. Meta are notorious for manipulating their viewers. Threads will rapidly devolve into rage bait, since this gives maximum engagement. They will use us to dilute the resultant toxicity. Once it's established, even de-federating might not be enough. It could generate a locust like influx of toxic new members. The federation doesn't have the community robustness to absorb that sort of hit right now.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Read up on EEE (embrace, extend, extinguish).

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] italics 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I also don’t understand the issue. I’m against meta / twitter / reddit (hence my account here), but how does Threads bring about a degraded experience in any way for lemmy.world users? I feel like if anything this is a great way to get more people comfortable with the concept of the fediverse and push them one step closer to breaking away from the traditional social media companies. So far all I’ve been able to see is “Meta bad, defederate”.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

I like your optimism, but Meta is a relentless cancer and FOSS is its enemy. It won’t sit idly by while ideas of ad-free alternatives grow in its users minds. Nothing good can come from Meta’s mingling with non-profit competition.

The only silver lining is how incompetent these corporations have been lately. Fingers crossed, they’ll fuck up whatever nefarious shit they have planned, and the fediverse can carry on in some state when they try to pull the rug - at the very least for those who value its ideals over user count, but hopefully also still as a viable and active alternative.

Here’s an accessible summary of a few historical examples of why people don’t want corporations adopting their open source platforms: https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html

[–] Strolleypoley 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They will be hovering up your data and in a while they'll EEE this place to corporate death.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago

federation with meta will bring nothing but evil into our niche little corner of the net and i am not for it.

[–] Gazumbo 27 points 1 year ago

Please don't federate with Meta. You can guarantee they'll ruin all that is good about the fediverse.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (20 children)

It's starting to look like the capacity for a user to independently defederate their content from specific platforms is in order. Even better would be the capacity to select what specific content is federated where when publishing.

I personally want nothing to do with Meta, but I'd prefer to have the choice rather than having it made for me by the admins.

[–] Skaryon 14 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Agreed. I am already blocking communities I don't care for all the time but sometimes it would be much easier to be able to just block their entire instance (because the whole instance circles around the same type of content). I won't be able to find one single instance the federated with just the right others for my taste so let me just filter myself.

load more comments (16 replies)
load more comments (19 replies)
[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

i really hope we keep conglomerate out of the fediverse... they will commercialize it.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Threads has 60 million users in 1 day, the fediverse has 12 million over years of growth.

We'd be keeping ourselves out of Threads, not the other way around.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They can keep their 60 million threads, most of that is complete trash anyway.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

That 60 million includes the vast majority of people's actual real-life friends and family.

I know "les normies suck lulz" is a popular sentiment here, but I don't think constantly harping on how much we hate the average person and find them to be trash is a particularly good way to create a positive and welcoming community.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That not really how the fediverse works. A server can defederate them, but there's no way to keep them out of the fediverse as a whole. It's somewhat antithetical to the core purpose behind the fediverse anyway. They can't commercialize your instance.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] QubaXR 19 points 1 year ago

Please defederate from Meta while it is to our advantage.

[–] UserNotFound 17 points 1 year ago

Don't federate with Meta, please

[–] Sanctus 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't want them commercializing the space. I feel as though we came here to get away from that. I fear an EEE tactic at worst, ads possibly showing in my feed at the least. But its not like we can't defederate after launch if it is terrible.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] A_Toasty_Strudel 15 points 1 year ago (19 children)

Honestly, I feel like u/ruud is gonna see these comments and keep Zuck out of things. He seems like he cares about what's going on up in here.

load more comments (19 replies)
[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 15 points 1 year ago

If I wanted to be on meta I'd make a meta account

[–] transmatrix 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Isn’t Threads federating with Mastodon, not Lemmy?

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] ward2k 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There's a tonne of comments saying about EEE but people need to be aware that EEE is famous for not being successful

Microsoft themselves who coined the term gave up on the approach after a number of unsuccessful attempts

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

EEE not being successful doesn't mean it doesn't do any damage on its target.

Microsoft might have given up on it, but that doesn't mean that it haven't done enough damage to cripple its targets.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] PolarBone 8 points 1 year ago

Zucc-Gate-2023

[–] erik111189 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Have lemmy.world admins said anything about this yet at all?

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›