Last time a recruiter harassed me via text he tried to convince me of all the kickass benefits and fun of being in the military. Straight up just told him "Dude, if you put a gun in my hand, you're going to be responsible for a suicide. Not happening." For some reason he never replied.

[–] OldChicoAle 34 points 6 months ago (7 children)

Why I refuse to have guns even though I'm really interested in learning to shoot. I would love to go to a range and get better at target practice but I just don't want to go down that path. Maybe I should consider archery

[–] Guy_Fieris_Hair 32 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (6 children)

Jesus, there is a non-zero number people, in this thread, that don't get guns because they are afraid they might suicide? I hope you get the help you need, keeping a gun out of your house is a good thing but it is just the tip of an iceberg.

Edit: Everyone on this thread is acting like this is normal, THIS ISN'T NORMAL OR OK. PLEASE take care of yourself.

[–] FooBarrington 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

There's a well-known and strong correlation between gun ownership and suicide rates:

Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don’t own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don’t.

I'm not sure if it's fair to say that people are "acting like this is normal" - it is a real danger, and it's good that these folks are aware of it and are acting accordingly. Even if you get help, you won't just magically get better and will never suffer from suicidal thoughts again. Making sure you don't put yourself in unnecessary danger seems like a healthy strategy to me.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Is it just me or this statistic kind of... useless? It's the same as saying "people who own a car are eight times more likely to die in car crashes". No shit. Surely we should be comparing the raw (successful) suicide rate of gun owners versus not. Later in the article they do cover this to a point, stating that it is still a 4x increase.

The researchers found that people who owned handguns had rates of suicide that were nearly four times higher than people living in the same neighborhood who did not own handguns. The elevated risk was driven by higher rates of suicide by firearm. Handgun owners did not have higher rates of suicide by other methods or higher rates of death generally.

[–] Guy_Fieris_Hair 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I don't know if it's a people who already have issues and have guns are more likely to use the gun instead of other means kind of statistic you have there, but owning a gun does not want to make you want to kill yourself purely by existing. It is a problem that exists regardless of the gun. And people who just... don't have a gun have a thousand different ways to accomplish the task. You aren't like, a healthy individual then get a gun and suddenly have .... urges.

[–] FooBarrington 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I don't know if it's a people who already have issues and have guns are more likely to use the gun instead of other means kind of statistic you have there

Well, you could easily figure that out by reading the link I sent. But I'll gladly clear it up for you: the statistic isn't about "likelihood of using gun for suicide", it's "likelihood of suicide". Men who own guns are 8x more likely to kill themselves than men who don't.

but owning a gun does not want to make you want to kill yourself purely by existing. It is a problem that exists regardless of the gun.

It is, but that doesn't mean you should ignore the statistics. Owning a gun dramatically increases your chances of suicide, mostly because it's the quickest method easily available. Suicide is extremely often an impulse. If you have a quick and easy method available, you're far more likely to commit suicide than if you don't. This has been researched for a long time.

And people who just... don't have a gun have a thousand different ways to accomplish the task. You aren't like, a healthy individual then get a gun and suddenly have .... urges.

Okay, so people with suicidal thoughts should just buy guns and go through with it, or what? I'll repeat myself: you don't just get help and are magically better the next day. Improving your mental state is a process that takes at the very least multiple years. Knowing yourself and statistics well enough to not give yourself an easy suicide method is good.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

I assume it increases the risk of successfully kill yourself on impulse. Having fleeting suicidal thoughts because of a temporary circumstances, is what is dangerous here. That’s the kind of suicide you’d regret if you could regret something when being dead.

The more interesting thing is that it’s only 8x higher for men opposed to 38x higher for women. If I remember correctly men tend to do more brutal suicides, which means a percentage probably only got that gun to kill themselves.

[–] Madison420 5 points 6 months ago

I think it's more of a don't trust themselves with that power sort of thing, I'll bet most of them have a hard time making the big calls and hard shots of life and work.

[–] Jeanschyso 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Basically the out of a simple pull of the trigger is too easy. Easier than jumping off a bridge, relatively painless, quick and doesn't injure bypassers.

Having the gun is too easy an out, so people with suicidal thoughts will stay away from them. I was like that too at 22. Here's just one of many stories. Trigger warning for suicide (duh)

If Quebec, Canada had the same access to handguns as the US, I would be dead today. Simple as that. Instead, I failed an attempt to jump from a viaduc because I was scared of causing a collision and taking someone else with me, was sent to the hospital by the police, got a psychiatrit's help. Turns out I wasn't a lazy worthless piece of shit. I had an untreated, very powerful case of ADHD blocking me from accomplishing anything of value.

I am no longer suicidal. I've overcome that. However, I always worry that those feelings will one day come back after a series of bad decisions. I am, therefore, keeping things that would kill me in an instant without pain away from myself. You just never know when you'll have a moment of weakness. If I thought to off myself once, I can think of it again.

[–] Guy_Fieris_Hair 2 points 6 months ago

I guess my initial comment, for me, was the perspective that it is common enough to have this many people openly talking about it in this thread very nonchalant, like that is the norm. There are a thousand reasons not to own a gun, that reason seemed a little specific, then others chimed in that were on the same page. It just surprised me. I am glad you are doing better and I hope you remember how temporary those feelings are if they ever come back.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Been seeing a psychiatrist and been in therapy for years, I still know it's a really bad idea to keep a magical "life goes away" button in my house.

[–] menemen 1 points 6 months ago

I hope those people seek further help (just google sucide prevention). Not having a gun is not sufficient suicide prevention.

[–] dingus 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Idk if you've ever had suicidal thoughts, but they can are generally really impulsive, and not really well thought out. Obviously everyone is different, but many suicides are done on impulse.

I'm doing perfectly fine right now. I'm happy and have a pretty good life. But I know that when bad events happen, those suicidal impulses are just that...impulses. they aren't something that most people who attempt suicide sit down and take the time to thorougly think out. They can happen unexpectedly when you're in a vulnerable stste. Unexpected and intense life events happen that can push even "normal and well adjusted" people over the edge if they have access to something dangerous like that. Imagine suddenly and unexpectedly losing your spouse or your career or etc. Shit happens.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago

I suggest if youre looking for a shooty type hobby that doesnt involve actual guns, yes archery is very neat, though modern compound bows are comparably pricey to many guns...

Perhaps try paintballing or airsoft?

Frankly I've always found airsoft and the community around it pretty cringey, but I had a blast 'woodsballing' as a kid. The indoor competitive ranges I found silly... but it can be great fun to stomp around in the woods for a day, if you don't mind huge bruises from getting hit haha!

Even so, probably most outdoor ranges have an area for chronoing (dialing in your gas pressure so your paint is flying at an appropriate speed) or just target practice, and you can probably just plink at such a range if you wanted to.

Or maybe airsoft sounds more your thing?

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You can probably hire them at the range.

But a VR gun app may satisfy you. You get the skills without the danger, noise and cost (ignoring headsets cost).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

... a very, very small subset of the skills, if any.

Is there a VR gun app that simulates guns having... weight?

How About how to handle misfires, squibs or jams? Does it go over safety precautions, proper storage, handing, transit and relevant local laws?

Oh how about recoil management and shooting stances and shouldering? All the intricacies of reloading different kinds of weapons? Trigger pull and break?

If you got your gun training from VR, you'd still probably want to take a firearms familiarization course IRL before actually using a gun, as all that VR can really offer is the general concept of aiming.

Also, depending on your VR headset of choice, you could probably actually buy a decent pistol, rifle or shotgun and a day at the range's worth of ammo for the same cost.

Honestly, a pellet or bb gun would be a far better way to learn a lot more applicable basics of shooting for cheaper than a vr headset.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

It depends what the goal is.

You are correct that VR is not going to mimic reality.

But it does a good job of aiming and shooting with zero safety issues.

Reloading different weapons too.

Some people go a bit crazy mimicking the weight and feel of their VR guns.

Not seen recoil but a low velocity version is probably possible.

I'm not sure a gun law simulator would sell well, but some people are strange.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Shooting a gun in VR is nothing like shooting a gun in real life, and if you 'train' in VR and then actually try to shoot a gun IRL you will realize this basically immediately.

I am trying to imagine someone with 'VR Training' going to a gun range and it looks like the vids of people waving loaded guns around on range and sweeping people with a loaded mag, shooting a gun and having it fly out of their hands or into their faces because they have no idea how stances and recoil work.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 1 points 6 months ago

Shooting a gun in VR is nothing like shooting a gun in real life

That may be exactly the point, to avoid shooting a gun in real life.

people waving loaded guns around on range and sweeping people with a loaded mag

Exactly. Do this in VR and there is no danger, just skill and fun.

[–] Dicska 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

"I wonder if I shoot straight up and stand under it..."

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Minecraft

[–] MrVilliam 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Idk if this is something that would be legal in every state, but most shooting ranges I've seen have firearm rentals. This typically helps them to sell guns because you can see how they feel, but there's no obligation to purchase. They also might let you rent stuff that you couldn't legally purchase without crazy licensing, like fully automatic machine guns.

I have a friend who doesn't think it's a good idea for himself to own a gun for similar reasons. Others here seem to be alluding to that being a huge issue, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. It's weird to assume that the people who don't want you own guns must have mental health issues. The data is clear that owning a gun makes a person significantly more likely to be harmed by a gun, whether it's self-inflicted, an accident, a robbery gone wrong, or any number of other events. If you feel like your health and safety are at risk because of anxiety or depression or anything like that, I hope you're able to help yourself by even just chatting with somebody who is qualified to help you, maybe getting some medication and lifestyle tips also. I found that I had a vitamin D deficiency, and just taking a standard supplement every day has had a big positive impact on my mood and attitude. Like, I still feel helpless in a shitty world that we as a species are actively making worse every single day, but now I know that that's a problem that's way too big for li'l ol' me to solve. But what I can do is take a few minutes to type something to an internet stranger to tell them that they matter and that they are worth the effort of helping. You matter and you're worth the effort of helping. Even if you don't think it's particularly dire, check in with yourself. Therapy is not for emergencies, so don't wait until it's an emergency to talk to somebody.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Username does not check out

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Or blowgun

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago

You can get U-shaped blowguns tho

[–] daltotron 2 points 6 months ago

If you want a pretty close experience without the real risk of suicide, you could always go with lower caliber airguns. The lack of muzzle energy means it's not a ripe candidate for killing anything but small game at most, it requires you to be pretty on top of your shit as far as consistent follow through, holdover, windage. Shot per shot cost can be pretty low, especially if you get a swaging die and make the pellets or slugs yourself. The only downside is that the guns can get pretty pricey, up in the realm of very expensive normie guns, especially for something very high quality and with all the cool stuff, but overall it's a pretty cheap and less dangerous hobby if you like shooting. Most people have this conception that they're only for kids or whatever, based on what they see at the sportsman's warehouse, but with a bit of googling you can find some guns that are pretty performative for not a lot.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

On that note, you can just tell them you have depression btw.

[–] LucasWaffyWaf 7 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

When somebody contacts me out of the blue without my input, tries to sign me up to get murdered for the benefit of the military industrial complex, and reads "No, I'm not interested" as "tell me more," I become less likely to be as polite about matters. No means No, and if you keep pushing I'm gonna be as blunt as I need to be.