this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2023
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“If it involves money. It’ll be on our platform. Money or securities or whatever. So, it’s not just like send $20 to my friend. I’m talking about, like, you won’t need a bank account.”

Well that sounds terrifying!

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[–] Humanius 425 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (19 children)

Just wait till Musk learns about banking regulations.
He's already complaining about the EU regulations on social media, but they nothing compared to what banks have to deal with.

[–] [email protected] 134 points 1 year ago (3 children)

He’s recreating Venmo. 😂

[–] PumpkinEscobar 96 points 1 year ago (5 children)

FWIW his white whale or inspiration is more like the Chinese “we do everything” apps / platforms https://wise.com/us/blog/chinese-payment-app

[–] [email protected] 69 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Without getting official government institutions on board or making the app mandatory in some way, I don't see how this would work outside of authoritarian countries

They're bleeding users and advertisers as it is

[–] cyd 43 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The Chinese super apps didn't really have government institutions on board, aside from the chat censorship aspect which was the main thing the government was originally paying attention to. In other aspects, the Chinese government and its regulators didn't initially get involved, and the rapid dominance of Alibaba and Tencent took them by surprise.

The super apps benefitted from a mix of rapid smartphone adoption, first mover advantages, weak consumer protections, and fierce competition with each other. It's probably that combination of circumstances that's hard to replicate, not the authoritarian country bit (there are lots of authoritarian countries that haven't fostered super apps).

The Chinese government was not entirely happy about the result; for example, the dominance of WeChat Pay and AliPay poses a threat to the state-owned banks, which are a major channel of government control over the economy. That is why the Chinese government has spent the last few years cracking down on the super app companies in various ways.

[–] thantik 14 points 1 year ago

I don't see how this would work outside of authoritarian countries

I mean, you saw the people he was meeting up with during world cup and stuff right? I think that's the plan.

[–] ours 7 points 1 year ago

That explains him supporting the alt-right.

[–] dojan 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The thing about these everything apps is that they filled a niche in the markets they've succeeded in. As far as I know, and I could be wrong, Google doesn't operate their Play services or Google Pay in China, meaning there was a vacuum for something else to fill it. WeChat and AliPay has done that.

It'd take a LOT of effort to build a platform like Paytm for the U.S., nevermind other markets. You can't just buy a microblogging platform and magically redevelop it into something like Paytm. He'd need to partner with other businesses and whatnot, and I just don't see there being any sort of interest in that kind of partnership.

There's been attempts to build these sorts of "everything apps" before. Facebook has tried and failed. I think Snapchat has tried it. Apps here in the west tend to focus on doing a single or a handful of tasks really well. If an app ends up doing too much, it's often split into several apps.

[–] PumpkinEscobar 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, I have trouble imagining this working in the US, even if Musk hadn't spent a year flushing his cash and credibility down the drain.

[–] dojan 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I don't see it working in Sweden either.

  1. We have apps for identifying ourselves digitally, most popular being BankID, but there are alternatives like Freja E-ID and various others.
  2. We have apps for easy money transfers, Swish being the most prominent, and it can be used to pay in stores and such as well.
  3. We have apps that combine economy management and shopping, I've no idea how popular they are, but Klarna comes to mind.

Amazon launched here a couple of years ago, and I think they've clawed out a niche in the market shockingly, but they're not the "go to marketplace" for everything. If I want to buy electronics there's like at least half a dozen online (that often have physical locations) stores I'd go to first. Same thing for larger appliances, clothes, make-up/beauty/skin-hair-care, shoes, sporting goods, furniture. Amazon is mostly for like weird niche stuff, like it's the only place I could find a detergent that's designed for robot mops that doesn't contain tea-tree oil. Amazon is also a decent place to find mass-produced cheap garbage tat, like LED string lights and what have you.

They also make use of the same delivery services that all other stores do, so there's no point in using them if you want speedy deliveries. I also don't feel safe as a buyer when using Amazon because while I'm sure they have to be compliant with Swedish consumer laws, I'm also positive they'll make the experience as tricky to navigate as possible. If I buy a motherboard from say Inet, and it breaks, I can just send an email to Jonas at Inet and they'll sort it out. Nothing will be that straight-forward with Amazon.

Anyway, the point of that massive segue is; if a MASSIVE specialised company like Amazon has failed to fully establish themselves in their own niche here in Sweden, how on earth would a broken microblogging platform manage to "out-compete" other, trusted, and established services?

Musk is aiming to use twitter for a niche that doesn't exist. Literally the only demand for this dream platform of his, is himself.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Speaking of buying weird niche items from Amazon: I’ve ordered spare parts and other weird and obscure electronics from Amazon so many times that now they think I’m a company and that I should have a company account.

How did this happen? If I want to buy normal stuff, I’ll walk to a normal store and buy it there. If I need something a bit more special, I’ll probably find it somewhere within a 2000 km radius. If nobody sells what I need, I’ll try Amazon. That’s why my shopping history looks like I’m running some special company.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

He was involved with PayPal so it’s not a huge stretch but I wouldn’t trust anything with that clown.

[–] takeda 15 points 1 year ago

He was ousted from PayPal before it become PayPal. Actually his name for the service was X, so this might be long awaited dream.

[–] TenderfootGungi 8 points 1 year ago

He really wasn’t that involved. He was trying to build an everything app. Peter Theil went with PayPal and booted Elon.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That is too simplistic of a name and un-original.

If this product moves forward, it's likely to be on a small scale. For example, like when a person needs to send a friend reimbursement for a coffee. So, initially, if it needs a simple name for paying back friends, or other pals, why not just call it Pay-A-Pal, or PayPal for short.

No bank account, no actual cash and everything happens in the system. It's revolutionary! It's like digital transactions that happen through pure accounting for a small fee. Like credit cards, but those are old.

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[–] [email protected] 67 points 1 year ago

This will almost definitely have a large "crypto" aspect. Which means the business model starts at unregulated fraud and gets worse from there.

But yeah, I assume there is a whiteboard at twitter headquarters, smeared with feces, that has

  1. Become bank
  2. ...
  3. Too big to fail
[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Somehow services like PayPal manage to avoid being regulated like a bank. I'm sure they'll ~~clobber~~ cobble together some potentially unlawful solution and not face any repercussions for it.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

Paypal is a bank here in europe. Hope musXk leaves Europe.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago

iirc the money storage aspect of PayPal has to be regulated as a bank.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think because they're a payment processor. Banks store large amounts of money, make loans, etc.

[–] givesomefucks 18 points 1 year ago

It's going to be like a crypto or PayPal wallet where you can store a balance, it's just not insured or regulated like a bank.

I saw an article a while ago where a concerning amount of people were doing that instead of a bank account.

[–] grabyourmotherskeys 3 points 1 year ago

They issue credit and lenders finance this. There's always a bank.

[–] SpaceNoodle 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Things been put in charge of their legal team.

[–] SpaceNoodle 3 points 1 year ago

It's cobblin' time

makes shoes

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Yes, jesus thank you. It was right on the tip of my tongue.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Even if he complies to all the regs. There is no way people in the west will switch to his app. The reason why those all-in-one apps took off in China and Southeast Asia is because banking infrastructure sucked hard before. You could only pay cash in most places unless you went to more upscale stores. Because those payment terminals are just too expensive for many small time businesses. With the arrival of those apps even a street vendor could afford to accept digital payments. Thus lots of people started using those apps to pay. The western countries already have good banking infrastructure and people are very hesitant to switch banks.

[–] Garbanzo 12 points 1 year ago

people are very hesitant to switch banks.

Wells Fargo still existing is pretty good evidence

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think it's plausible he will actually pull X out of the EU completely and concentrate on the US. Banking regulations around the world vary greatly and I can't see him wanting to handle all that.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wanting or able to handle it?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Paypal was built on the idea of a system that was without regulations that were tough. Paypal in the UK operated out of Ireland up until recently out of FCA control knowing full well they were committing fraud on a grand scale with things like "We're closing your account and if you want your money back get in contact with us in 180days time" which was the email people used to get when the system didnt like you for any reason.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah, getting the licences involves a ton of audits, compliance to a bunch of regulations, etc. All stuff Twitter has no experience with.

It would literally be easier to just start this thing from scratch instead of grafting it onto a social network.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Best he will do is another paypal/venmo thing. No way its gonna be a bank.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I mean, he wanted Paypal originally (and to name it X), so this just seems like the end goal he was trying to get to the whole time.

And it will still crash and burn. Gloriously so.

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