this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2024
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Mazda recently surprised customers by requiring them to sign up for a subscription in order to keep certain services. Now, notable right-to-repair advocate Louis Rossmann is calling out the brand.

It’s important to clarify that there are two very different types of remote start we’re talking about here. The first type is the one many people are familiar with where you use the key fob to start the vehicle. The second method involves using another device like a smartphone to start the car. In the latter, connected services do the heavy lifting.

Transition to paid services

What is wild is that Mazda used to offer the first option on the fob. Now, it only offers the second kind, where one starts the car via phone through its connected services for a $10 monthly subscription, which comes to $120 a year. Rossmann points out that one individual, Brandon Rorthweiler, developed a workaround in 2023 to enable remote start without Mazda’s subscription fees.

However, according to Ars Technica, Mazda filed a DMCA takedown notice to kill that open-source project. The company claimed it contained code that violated “[Mazda’s] copyright ownership” and used “certain Mazda information, including proprietary API information.”

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[–] [email protected] 334 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Subscription services or software restricted features for cars should just be outlawed entirely.

Nobody likes these, if someone is willing to deal with a subscription product then they can do that aftermarket. The car itself should never come with something that will require recurring payments.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 128 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Nobody likes these

Shareholders love them

[–] abigscaryhobo 68 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I think I can speak for most Americans (and as someone who owns stocks) fuck the shareholders.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 month ago

I'm conflicted. On one hand, I'm a shareholder due to broad market investments in my 401k. On the other hand, I'm a consumer.

On net, screw this nonsense, just make good products and the recurring revenue will happen due to happy customers.

[–] Serinus 7 points 1 month ago (6 children)

I bought a bit of BP shortly after the oil spill.

I was hoping to lose it all, but had the feeling I'd end up making money. I did make money.

All those shareholders should have been fucked.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 month ago

Shareholders love lootboxes too.

And one party autocracy.

[–] chiliedogg 20 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Should they though? The average lifespan of a car is 12 years. Even if they got someone to pay the subscription the entire time, that's like 5% of the value of the car, spread over a length of time that makes it almost worthless. They could more easily charge an extra 1500 for the car, which is more money and it's money they get now and isn't picked apart by inflation.

It's not especially good financially in the short or long term and is harmful to the brand image and customer loyalty.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Even if they got someone to pay the subscription the entire time, that’s like 5% of the value of the car, spread over a length of time that makes it almost worthless.

It's a revenue stream you can collect after the vehicle is sold. Continuous cash flow means long term revenue stability for the business.

And its the introduction of a model that can scale. Once you've got someone's account information, you can sell them more shit (or just sell their data to advertisers). This is just the tip of the spear. Tesla, BMW, and Mercedes are all experimenting with Vehicle as a Service product models.

Investors love the possibility of revenue growth, and these programs promise the possibility of high margin after market sales for the life of the vehicle.

harmful to the brand image and customer loyalty

Not when everyone is doing it

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Shareholders can get fucked. They’re making the world a worse place daily.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 month ago (6 children)

I think it's fair if Mazda has to operate a server to enable it, but I think Mazda should have to pay car owners to allow them to connect the car to a mobile network, especially for operating their spyware/telemetry.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

I think it's fair if Mazda has to operate a server to enable it

No. Either you support it for a predetermined few decades as part of the vheicle cost, or let the consumer switch to a different service.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Option 3 take the stop killing games approach and grant the user the server back end when they stop supporting it themselves so users can host it themselves

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago
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[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod 22 points 1 month ago (1 children)

As long as they give me a way to run my own server for free, I agree with you.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

They can literally just run a server locally on the car itself on a seperate non critical board that handles the functions locally

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod 1 points 1 month ago

The only problem with that is how they handle root level authentication. I don’t want some script kiddie pwning my car.

[–] T00l_shed 14 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Well it's double shit if you can't get the remote start on a FOB now. Fuck Mazda for that bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Completely agree. I use the fob.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

OK, they can add $1 to the price of the car for a lifetime subscription (and no the load probably will never add up to that).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (4 children)

You still have to pay for the cell service to connect the car. That's going to cost a whole lot more than $1

[–] T156 6 points 1 month ago

But not that much more.

A consumer mobile connection is about $30 a month. A car company could get it cheaper, not just by buying in bulk, but also because by not needing that much bandwidth for their connection.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I think it's fair if Mazda has to operate a server to enable it

Do they? Why can't the 2 devices communicate directly?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

...because something needs to check you've paid your subscription. A man in the middle.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

You'd probably still need at least some sort of discovery server for devices to find each other.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Pear to pear multiplayer games work without a server,

Why can't they install some server on a seperate non critical board that handles those functions locally

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

There arent enough 🍐

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yea, that is worse than eWaste, in my opinion. Hope EU does not let this slide for far longer.. It should be illegal to ask for subscriptions for something that is a one time cost for the manufacturer.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hope EU does not let this slide for far longer..

You're out of luck with the remote start feature. Remote start is not allowed in the EU because it is unnecessary wear and tear on the engine, a waste of fuel and adds to air pollution.

Before my inbox explodes, I understand there are places that get unbelievably cold, and warming the car before the fragile human gets in is preferable, nevertheless, cars warm up faster and more economically when driven.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

None of those reasons apply to electric cars, though. What's their stance on that?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I have no clue. However, turning a heater on is not the same as starting an engine.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

I can start the heater (and AC) remotely on my dacia spring within EU 😂✌🏻

But how got the conversation there? 😂😅

[–] officermike 12 points 1 month ago (3 children)

The car itself should never come with something that will require recurring payments.

Cars already do. Satellite radio has been a thing for decades now. I've never used it. Never felt the desire to use it. I haven't even taken the free trial. I'm less annoyed that it exists, and more annoyed that I'm forever fated to receive unsolicited junk mail for this feature that I have to unceremoniously dump in the recycling bin every couple weeks.

As for the remote start, yeah, it's kinda bullshit that they've removed the more permanent, older version of a feature to replace it with something out of the owners' control. If anything, it should exist in parallel with the key fob button, not replace it entirely. I'm less concerned about the fact that it's a subscription than I am about the prospect of that feature dropping support down the road with no recourse for the owner.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Your SiriusXM subscription doesn't go to the manufacturer of the car. This is what they referred to as aftermarket subscriptions in their comment. It isn't any different than if I subscribe to spotify Snr then connect my phone to the car to use it.

[–] IMALlama 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

SiriusXM does revenue share with auto companies.) Old article, but I'm too lazy to dig through a financial report or find something newer.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Fair enough but I still view it differently than being locked out of using actual OEM features of the car. I do find this unsurprising though based on the metric fuckton of spam you get from SiriusXM after buying any new or used car from a legit dealer.

[–] IMALlama 1 points 1 month ago

I still view it differently than being locked out of using actual OEM features of the car

Totally agree!

I do find this unsurprising though based on the metric fuckton of spam you get from SiriusXM after buying any new or used car from a legit dealer.

I've always wondered how much this costs relative to the number of takers they pull in.

[–] JWBananas 7 points 1 month ago

I haven't even taken the free trial.

  1. Download this app:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.siriusxm.dealer

  1. If you don't have the means of faking your location with root (not through developer settings), drive to, like, any nearby car dealership.

  2. Open the app, tap the "Enter Radio ID" button, and... do that.

  3. Profit!

No sign-up or account required. You will have full service for 3 months.

You can repeat this process indefinitely. It has worked for years. They do not care.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I’m forever fated to receive unsolicited junk mail for this feature that I have to unceremoniously dump in the recycling bin every couple weeks.

Imagining a future in which I have to tell my YouTube integrated car company that I don't want to sign up for their music service every time I start my car.

[–] skeezix 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Imagine if you lived in a country where a simple note taped to your mailbox would eliminate all junk mail.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Does it work out for you? I'm German, and in theory the sticker has to be respected here too, but in my experience a lot of junk mail bets on me being too lazy to sue them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

It seems to be working pretty well. There's the occasional transgression, but by and large we only get spam that is actually addressed to us.