this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2024
257 points (95.7% liked)

Europe

1585 readers
469 users here now

News and information from Europe ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in [email protected]. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)

(This list may get expanded when necessary.)

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @[email protected], @[email protected], or @[email protected].

founded 5 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (8 children)

Cigarettes, sure, but including ecigs sounds unreasonable? I quit smoking couple of years ago and regular cigarette smell makes me gag but Iqos and liquid vapes are not that offensive outdoors.

[โ€“] pyre 31 points 2 months ago (2 children)

yes they are. i just want to breathe air.

[โ€“] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Honestly I hate clouds of strawberry hitting me even more than regular cigarette smoke

[โ€“] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Especially considering that every molecule of that sickly strawberry smoke was just inside that guy.

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You're always breathing in molecules that were just inside other people when you're in public, even if they're not in a visible cloud.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

So? It's a very pertinent reminder.

We all know fish shit, fuck, and die in the ocean, but if you're swimming by the beach... Do you want me to finish the analogy?

[โ€“] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I too would like to see cars banned but it's just not practical yet.

[โ€“] pyre 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

doesn't mean we shouldn't start somewhere. fuck cars.

[โ€“] [email protected] -3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Frankly it should be completely illegal to privately own and operate anything motorized.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

CALL THE COPS THEY'VE GOT AN ELECTRIC WHISK

[โ€“] [email protected] 26 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Seems like it's more about discouraging any tobacco use, rather than how unpleasant it is to others.

[โ€“] halcyoncmdr 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

To be fair, ecigs don't use tobacco. They may have nicotine added to the liquid, but no tobacco.

[โ€“] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Wasn't aware of that, so thanks for pointing it out, but yeah, what it's really about is the nicotine. They want fewer people addicted.

[โ€“] kofe 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Is alcohol still legal? Afaik at this point we have more evidence to the dangers of alcohol than vaping

[โ€“] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

There's studies suggesting that vaping has a lot of negative effects as well, particularly on the lungs. Inhaling smoke or damps just isn't great for one's health it seems. Vaping also release a number of poisonous substances (propylene glycol and various aldehydes to name a few). Vaping also seems to increase your risk of cancer, but studying that is tough still because vaping is fairly new.

[โ€“] kofe 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I wasn't arguing it isn't harmful. I'm just interested how there's so much public effort to go after it but seemingly not alcohol even a bit.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Vaping is new, it's more likely it can be stopped in its tracks now, compared to alcohol which is sadly ingrained into our culture for thousands of years now. Though I should say that in some countries alcohol usage is trending down as well.

[โ€“] stormeuh 4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Yes, but it's also controlled and pretty well regulated in terms of what you can sell. E-cigs are not, or at least not enough, leading to the sale of devices which deliver nicotine in incredibly potent doses, which makes them very addictive (especially because nicotine is one of the most addictive substances in the world). Couple that with sleek packaging, and in some countries advertising which will be seen by kids, and you have a device which is creating a new generation of nicotine addicts.

Don't get me wrong, vaping is generally healthier than smoking, and thus better for existing nicotine addicts. We should, however, be doing everything to avoid creating new addicts.

[โ€“] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

I think it is more about that drinking in public is legal in many countries (also in many it isn't). So for the "discouraging" it should also be banned from the public equally.

In regards to "regulated what you can sell" You can also buy anything from 2,5% beer-mix stuff over 40-60% Schnaps and even up to 80% high destillate for cooking purposes. Which are still drunk by some alcoholics. Strong alcohol burns your throat away, but it is available on the market easily.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

E-cigs are regulated in Europe, or more precisely e-liquids are, which is what determines the amount of nicotine rather than the device itself. Of course you can DIY liquids with stupid amounts of nicotine, but what you can buy off-the-shelf, including those terrible prefilled single-use e-cigs (which should be banned IMO) won't deliver you more nicotine than regular cigarettes.

[โ€“] TheGrandNagus 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Nobody is talking about making vaping illegal entirely.

Alcohol already usually has restrictions on drinking it when walking down the street.

Sure there are some places (e.g. UK) where it isn't, but even there local authorities have the power to forbid it if they want to.

Currently smoking doesn't have this, and neither does vaping.

[โ€“] [email protected] 25 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They still affect air quality for others

[โ€“] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

There are obvious health benefits from making smoking as annoying as possible for smokers which will lead to long term medical cost decrease. Secondary smoke from ecigs outdoors is still neglible compared to cars, farts and people in general.

[โ€“] [email protected] 21 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I still find it annoying personally.

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It is not about annoyance it is about ease of consumption and indirect smoking which kills.

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

But for ecigs that doesn't apply as much right? But yea I agree generally.

[โ€“] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

I find lots of things annoying outdoors but I guess it's not so common here to become an issue. Ecigs users are usually conscious enough to keep distance from other people. I hear it's getting pretty bad with disposable vapes but haven't seen much of that myself, likely a perk of not living in a big city.

[โ€“] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Ecigs are just as, if not more disgusting than regular cigarettes. Vape clouds tend to linger in the air a lot longer. And then there's the fact that single-use vapes exist and it's a fucking disgrace.

[โ€“] Squizzy 6 points 2 months ago

I'd prefer not to get second hand popcorn lung because people feel special exhaling way too much unregulated chemicals.

[โ€“] Valmond 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Ban cigs but not e-cigs says e-cig user.

Sounds like the onion ๐Ÿ˜‹

[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I have only smoked regular cigarettes (quit 5 years ago after 10 year long addiction). Not sure why you assumed I use ecigs. I can only say tribalism is a cancer upon internet discourse.

[โ€“] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago

O hate regular smoke smell, but weirdly I prefer it to flavoured e-smokes. My brain is telling me that that's artificial as fuck and I should stay clear. And it's right.