Ask Lemmy

The first major issue is "How do I know it will work? How do I know the sacrifice won't be in vain?"

Even if I just up commit suicide, cutting my carbon emissions to zero, private planes will still fly, we'll still ship plastic trinkets across the pacific, still destroy habitat, etc.

Its defeatist, but unless we get the rich on board, shit sucks.

I would sacrifice my left arm if I thought it would prevent a climate catastrophe. But it won't. Literally nothing I can give will improve any of the problems you listed.

What should I be willing to sacrifice? Hamburgers? My personal car? Money? My kid's college fund? Give me an outcome, and I'll tell you if it's worth it.

Killing a billionaire would reduce carbon emissions more than anything else I could personally do, so let's start there and see how it goes. We can talk about me giving things up when those efforts won't be undone by some asshole flying to Chamonix for the weekend or whatever those fucks are doing.

I think people are willing to sacrifice more than even they would expect, but no one wants to be the only one sacrificing, especially if it puts them at a disadvantage compared to others. But collectively, if people sacrificed together, it could even become a point of pride. It's why countries develop strong solidarity in times of war.

I'll sacrifice enough of my time to help build the guillotines we'll need to deal with the root cause of these problems.

In case it's not apparent already none of these problems are things that can be solved by personal sacrifices of average individual citizens. We need sweeping government and economic reforms if we're going to do anything except kick the can down the road for another generation or three while the wealthy continue to loot the planet for their own benefit. If anyone needs to make sacrifices right now it's the 0.01% sitting on top of enough money and influence to solve all of these problems.

It's always crazy to come into threads like these and see people say "I would murder as many elites as possible" without batting an eye, and in the same comment say "I could never give up hamburgers." It's some kind of insane self-soothing to throw all of the responsibility for a global issue onto a few scapegoats. It also shows that people have no intention of doing fuck all about climate change beyond typing up snarky comments on the internet.

People can misquote all kinds of studies they half remember to pretend that they have no responsibility for making changes, but that doesn't make it true. Just as one example, first world countries' per-capita rate of meat consumption alone is enough to push the world over our 1.5C warming target. But because it's an inconvenience to make any changes to my life, I'm going to pretend I would personally kill scores of people rather than make a new recipe for dinner. We're fucked

Nothing, I'm only making a better world if I can make my own life better at the same time. I do live an extreme frugal existence and avoid working for any unethical organization, but it's not a sacrifice.

What we can "bear" is the wrong question for a couple reasons:

• Consumer luxuries don't actually make for a better life.

• Altruistic scheming isn't anyone's actual motivation for doing things.

• "sacrifice" is irrational bargaining; reality doesn't care whether you've made yourself enough of a martyr, and people who want to be martyrs don't care if what they're sacrificing actually makes much of a difference.

An effective solution will involve changes we can be happy about and a lifestyle that is actually better than what we have now. Commutes and lives spent stressing over money are a shit trade for what people get from it anyway, it won't be hard to do better with less.

My husband and I don't have kids, and we've severely cut back (not fully cut out yet), but really cut back on our meat consumption. I also avoid buying plastic whenever possible, and buy things like toilet paper/paper towels/regular linens made from recycled materials. Actually, if I have the option to buy anything made from recycled materials I'll typically opt for that. That's about it right now.

Only tangentially related to your question, but I'm also in a Master degree program for Public Administration so when I retire from the military I can roll right into law school. My goal is to become a Public Defender, which, I know, is fucking hard work with a lot of burn out for little pay, but I do have confidence that I can be an extra pair of hands for an overburdened industry. Everyone in the US is entitled to competent representation, and I've no interest in representing those who can afford their own lawyers.

And it burns me up that the rich can often get away with paying simple fines while the poor who can't afford it go to jail and become essentially legalized slave labor. Fuck that. Anyone I can help save from losing their livelihood, home, family, car, etc, is a big fucking W in my book.

I would actually sacrifice everything I have, up to and including my life.

It wouldn’t do a damn thing, but if it would, you wouldn’t even have to ask.

Less and less as time goes on. Spent far too much of my youth sacrificing hoping a difference would be made only for it to leave me in a materially much worse situation. I should have just stayed in the major that would have gotten me a high paying job making weapons for the military and harming the environment rather than going into a science more designed to help people. If I were going to judge by personal outcomes and no other measure, that was the worst mistake of my life. I wish I could have been happy being part of the problem, because being part of the solution hasn't helped myself or even materially advanced the solution.

I don't have kids. Both a personal sacrifice and a way to massively minimize my carbon footprint.

And I don't even get to claim that I want a better climate for my offspring.

I do get to shamelessly do everything I want to do in my lifetime, though. Can recommend.

Honest answer, I cut my meat consumption to a few splurge meals a year. I have been working from home so I drive very little (granted I didn't opt for WFH just for carbon emission reduction). I compost, and recycle EVERYTHING I can. that means cleaning out every recyclable container and make sure to note what my county recycles vs. throws away. I buy the vast majority of my stuff second hand, I'm always looking for something that's slightly broken so I can fix it for a steal. I don't plan on having children so that's a plus, and I also vote for progressives that are fighting for tougher climate control standards.

All-in-all it's not a whole lot, but I'm just one of millions of struggling americans just trying to get their basic needs met while navigating this complex, shitty oligarchy I inherited from my parents.

I think there’s a fundamental problem with the question that goes to the heart of the climate crisis and which makes a significant contribution to why I think we will not solve it.

There’s two versions of this question. The first is the one you asked - how much are individuals and families willing to give up in order to make the climate problem go away (whatever that means at this point). The second is “If you knew with 100% accuracy that by you going vegan (or ditching your car or installing solar or composting…), that the climate crisis would definitely be solved, would you do it?

Let’s pretend that I don’t want to go vegan. I eat Big Macs every night. Porterhouse steaks every weekend. I drive an F-350 to the ice cream store down the block. All of that. Let’s say I love those things. If I personally give them up, it will make no difference if we don’t reorganize the entire global economy. You might convince me to vote for politicians who would pass laws to make that happen, but you’d have a harder time selling me on sacrificing something I see as a core benefit for zero gain. It’s the difference between “How much would you give to get a homeless person off the streets and a new start” and “How much would you give a homeless person if you knew they were just going to set the cash on fire” if you see where I’m going with that.

We are humans. We are cooperators. That’s how we got where we are. Unfortunately there’s also other dynamics in play as well. I honestly have no idea how far back we’d need to rewind the tape in order to have a chance at a better outcome. I do think any progress we can make is good. This just feels like a boulder rolling towards your house kind of thing where all you can do is watch.

As much as I can without harming those who depend on me.

Calm. Kindness. Kinship. Love. I've given up all chance at inner peace. I've made my mind a sunless space. I share my dreams with ghosts. I wake up every day to an equation I wrote 15 years ago from which there's only one conclusion, I'm damned for what I do. My anger, my ego, my unwillingness to yield, my eagerness to fight, they've set me on a path from which there is no escape. I yearned to be a savior against injustice without contemplating the cost and by the time I looked down there was no longer any ground beneath my feet. What is my sacrifice? I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude. So what do I sacrifice? Everything!

Every day I look at the shit happening around us and I find myself getting closer and closer to Luthen Rael’s state of mind.

And here’s the relevant clip, for those who haven’t seen it.

pretty much nothing. as an apprentice living off of not even minimum wage, i cannot afford any more price increases.

i am also a car enthusiast, and i want to keep the cobustion engine around (hydrogen ICE comes to mind). i would also like to keep the unlimited speed on the Autobahn, even if it would slightly improve efficiency in terms of fuel consumption and traffic accidents to implement a speed limit.

i strongly oppose the enshittification of every online service and think these datacenters used purely for processing collected data should not exist. they are being operated with coal energy in germany, which is just stupid. (from a quick google, they're using 18 Billion Watts)

Essential online services and infrastructure should be FOSS-based honestly. i NEED a google account to use public transport.

also fuck public transport. i have a 49€ ticket and cannot rely on it. we once had a 2-Month period where everyone had to use public transport because the schoool is located in the middle of the city. no one was ever on time these entire 2 months. did i mention that driving to work is 3 times faster, and i get to sit in a very comfortable heated seat the entire time?

Well over "35k plutocrats".

Not that much if I'm being completely honest. I've got bills to pay so I'm going to keep driving my truck to work, consuming stuff and buying meat. I'm more than happy to take part in the collective effort however so when the government sets new laws and regulations to fight climate change I just go with it even if it inconveniences me. Up to a point obviously. I just don't think that my actions as an individual makes any real difference. I'm not going to live more sub-optimal life than what I'm already living only so that I can feel good about being on the moral highground despite knowing it made no difference. I applaud everyone who does but that's just not me.

THE QUESTION in so many ways IMO. But also, for me at least, it misses the point.

For me, so much is about the social. Like, I would have a hard time sacrificing a lot to save humanity from the climate crisis if I knew humanity wouldn't know that they were saved (they don't have to know it was me) but just figured the climate problem simply disappeared without learning to manage their problems.

Otherwise, personally, the basic sacrifice that is a no-brainer is to lead a simple, unassuming and arguably (from a materialistic standpoint) boring life. Regarding the climate crisis I'd say I've done that most of my life, which I don't say with pride honestly as it's about the only thing I've done.

Beyond that, if there's some social buy-in from many to the relevant values etc, I think I'd certainly be willing to risk or end my life for the greater good.

I would not miss red meat if it became unavailable tomorrow

Not a good damn thing, unless everyone with a higher standard of living than I do has already sacrificed enough to bring them down to my level. If I was anywhere near the top standards of living then I would be more willing to go first. But I am not going to be tricked into giving things up on my own, or even as a sizable group, while some individuals and corporations are continuing to make issues worse.

I know my time here is fucked, but I'll do whatever I can to build momentum for future generations.

As a high school graduate with no higher education and social issues, my options are limited... but I do what I can, try to educate myself on current issues, and spread as much positivity as I can muster.

I've given up huge piles of cash by choosing to not work for megacorps.

It's worth it to me.

Confronted with the likelihood that we cannot achieve climate goals.

The current trend line sucks, but we've seen plenty of times in history what the ultra rich ignoring the plight of everyone else looks like. Someone please pass the "not with them" list to me to sign when it's time to chop their heads off.

I wish I was joking, but I'm not. Seriously. I'm not with them. I would like to keep my head while we adjust course abruptly.

Edit: To be clear, I am not advocating. What should happen is that our climate, inequality, and injustice trends get fixed through peaceful cooperation. But our current crop of billionaires don't show a lot of sign of either wanting that, or having any real awareness of where their current path, historically, goes. Which wouldn't really be material to me, other than beacuse I'm at risk both from the climate, and from how guillotines historically kill a lot of bystanders.

If it was guaranteed to make the world better and not just some empty political promise, I would give up every luxury I could think of. The only thing I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice are lives and human rights. If we needed to live in a tiny home with no internet, never eat out again and sew our clothes so that everyone is equal and has the same rights and comforts, I'm in. It would suck, but we'd survive and learn how to be content in knowing that no one is suffering for our greed anymore.

I highly doubt there will ever be a better world, our current “business as usual” course will doom humanity to extinction within the next two centuries, and have a non-trivial probability of initiating a Venus Scenario due to the inertia present in human-made climate change.

Our only hope of avoiding that future is bringing out the guillotines and removing pretty much the entire Parasite Class from existence, implementing a true separation of capitalism and state, and instituting punitive laws that control and limit the worst depredations of capitalism (far more than what currently exist). While it wouldn’t be true socialism, it would bring us much closer to democracy that is free of capitalistic cronyism and corruption, allowing society as a whole to save itself without being handcuffed and bound to a profit-at-all-costs path by our corporate masters.