So...Elon, the "Self Made" businessman is taking government subsidies? More likely than you think.
this post was submitted on 15 Dec 2023
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Every major corporation gets lots of subsidies from the government and few actually deliver what they promised in exchange. But yeah, yet another hyped up product by Musk today fails to live up to the promises. In this case it's because the sats still need to communicate directly with the grind station instead of being able to bounce signals between them. That was the original promise and it's still far from becoming reality.
Failed to live up to their promise? The whole point of these specific subsidies is to be at X in year 2025. The FCC said, nah, you aren't going to make it there by 2025 (in 2022), so we won't give you the money to make it there by 2025.
It's impossible to ever know now if that promise could or could not be met if they don't meet it as the money was part of that promise.
If they make it there in 2025 in spite of not getting the money, then we'll know the FCC decision was complete BS
Edit: For reference, SpaceX has almost doubled their 2022 starlink launches (33 vs 60+ (still a couple weeks left, might be 62-63?)). Each launch of the new v2 mini satellites is about 40% more bandwidth than their previous launch (less satellites but 4x bandwidth). And this pace is only going to increase. I think they're aiming for 140+ launches (not starlink specific) in 2024.
There was just a story about starlink slowing down as more customers joined the network.
Seems like a good call. The option is nice for rural areas, but it's a stopgap measure at best while those areas wait for the slow rollout of fiber.
You can just use your phone for internet in rural areas.
We have 4G coverage almost nationwide. The places without service are the ones where we're not allowed to build towers, like national parks.
I wouldn't say this is quite true. I live in a rural area and I need to connect to the Internet using my phone's hotspot for work. I have a surprisingly large number of homes I go into that I can't get enough of a cell signal with Verizon to make this work. It causes me no end of headaches.
Speaking from the West Coast, no you absolutely cannot. Plenty of places have terrible to no coverage once you’re out in the hinterlands.
Rurally here, HughesNet has existed for years. I have never used its service, but why would anyone have been compelled to switch to Starlink?
In theory, StarLink would have been faster because they use many low-orbit satellites as opposed to a handful of further-away geostationary satellites like HughesNet. But "faster speeds" isn't everything and this money is meant to expand actual broadband/optical internet.
Thanks. The speed part does make sense.
If they were able to meet the actual up/down metrics for the subsidy, I don't see why they shouldn't get it. But they weren't able to do that, so they don't get the subsidy.
Affordability is also a thing
The subsidy had a goal of 2025, they said you won't make it there in 2022. The money was going to be used to help make it there by 2025.
It's physics. The old satellite Internet uses geosynchronous satellites. That orbit requires the satellite to be 22,300 miles up.
The speed of light is 186,000 miles per second. So the 44,600+ mile round trip takes almost a quarter of a second (250ms) just for the signal to travel up to the satellite and down to the ground station.
250ms added to the normal Internet travel time each way makes for a very delayed internet connection (in practice, 650ms average latency or 2/3rds of a second ). Voice chat has notable pauses, online games becomes practically unplayable, and so on.
It's a bit hard to visualize sub 1s times, but if you say "how are you" at a normallish speed, the words "how are" would take close to 2/3rds of a second.
Starlink satellites are only 340 miles up. A round trip is less than 4ms. So the packet and the response from the Internet reach you sooner. Also each satellite can handle a fair amount of bandwidth which if the number of users is kept in check means closer to modern bandwidth. Looks like Starlink latency runs about 25ms on land and 100ms in remote areas (far away from a ground station).
Regarding bandwidth (how much data they can send at once), HughesNet seems to offer a max of 50mpbs while Starlink's current top (business) service is 500mbps.
So they're both satellite Internet services, but because in the difference in how they are deployed they offer very different speeds and latencies.
Excellent explanation
Starlinks latency with no nearby ground stations will probably get better as more laser links go up as well allowing for more direct routes.
Although the better solution is more ground stations.
Hughes net is popular in my area. It has such severe latency it is unusable for gaming, unfortunately.
Wouldn't the latency be an issue for Starlink as well? At some point, you're fighting the speed of light.
That being said, Starlink still saw multi-server latencies under 60 ms in the U.K. (51.26 ms), Spain (53.37 ms), Portugal (55.84 ms), and Belgium (59.34 ms). Starlink saw most countries’ multi-server latencies between 60 and 90 ms.
I thought I read that the latency increased since it first launched but it seems like they're doing pretty well.
No, due to the physical location of the sats. A much lower orbit and light delay only adds like 30ms of latency, versus HighesNet with something in the realm of 700ms.
Looks like Hughesnet starts at 15 GB per month and 15Mbs down for $49.99 a month**
**Monthly Fee reflects the applied $5 savings for ACHⓘ enrollment. Enroll before the 2nd billing cycle for continued savings.
Service plans require a 24-month commitment. Equipment Lease or Purchase fees extra.
That is pretty bad.
It's better to just use Visible. $25/month for unlimited data.
not everywhere has cell service
Ping/latency...and upload speed.
Traditional satellite internet using geostationary satellites not only have bandwidth limitations but also very high latency. This is simply physics, even at the speed of light, GEO is pretty darn far out. For regular web browsing that's not an issue, but anything that is latency dependent either starts failing or becomes unbearable.
Latency to GEO is about 500 milliseconds, that's half a second for a request you send to get up there, then another half second for it to be sent back to ground stations, then normal internet latency, then another second back up and then down to you. So you have normal internet latency, plus 2 seconds, at the best of times. So things like VoIP and gaming often have many more issues, or sometimes may not even be really usable.
The Starlink contstellation being in a Low Earth Orbit means a much lower latency. Real world latency has been around or below 100ms total, similar to LTE latency times. In the real world it is just more like a mobile connection that works even in the middle of nowhere.
dope. no more making the public pay for things that will be privately owned and exploited for profit. sorry rich people, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and stop eating so much avocado toast.
Uhh this money is still going to get allocated to someone.
Yeah it is. To the shitty cable companies we've had for years that have promised to serve rural areas but never have. But it seems like the most important thing is the unions that install and service that cable.
Not to mention starlink is used to help our enemies with convenient service disruptions at the behest of Putin no doubt.
I realize this is about rural broadband but it’s still relevant as it’s government subsidy
They say that now, but wait until they get Slammed or Blasted on X.
So the article doesn’t give any claimed reasons, seems very biased or at least poorly written.
From some of the gaps in the article and way too much speculation, I think the reasons were:
- Existing service didn’t meet a bandwidth requirement
- Scale out requires Starship, which has not flown yet
So I do believe this is our best hope for universal rural broadband, but it’s not a done deal. It’s never been done and the launch rate is beyond current technology, so there is no way to predict. At least traditional providers have known technology, and lots of experience. They suck and will never deliver but they could.
No, the article reports as much information as is publicly available. If the FCC wanted to be more specific in their reasoning, they would've been. Reporters can't just magically make recalcitrant public officials talk. This is an example of poor media literacy on your part.
Ahhhh, that's why he begged Investors for more money
Thank fuck. Can we stop funding this grifter?