this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2023
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No Stupid Questions

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[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I think it's written 'tonne'. And you should call it metric tonne if it's not clear from the context.

Wikipedia says:

The tonne is a unit of mass equal to 1000 kilograms. It is a non-SI unit accepted for use with SI. It is also referred to as a metric ton to distinguish it from the non-metric units of the short ton (United States customary units) and the long ton (British imperial units). The official SI unit is the megagram (symbol: Mg), a less common way to express the same amount.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonne

So yes, you can call it a megagramme and you'd be right. But we european people also sometimes do silly stuff and colloquially use wrong things. For example we also say it's 20 degrees celsius outside. And that's not the proper SI unit either. But that's kinda another topic.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's typically shortened as t. So a mass of 1,000,000 kg will be referred as 1,000 t

Normally it's clear from the context and what units you are using so there is no ambiguity.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

I'm not so sure. But maybe you're right. I think I was confusing that with tonnage of a ship. But that's a whole other concept and you can't really confuse the two.

With the 1000 t thats only because kg is a stupid SI unit and leads to the whole debacle. If there wasn't a prefix in the unit name itself, I think people would have started to use the SI unit prefixes correctly at some point instead of inventing and omitting other names to compensate.

I think I've heard things like megatonne. For example you can say your nuclear bomb has X megaton tnt equivalent.

A mass of a million kg should be 1 gigagram or 1 kilotonne. Not 1000t. (Edit: And not a kilotonne either, rather a mega-kilogram.)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The official definition of a 1,000 kg is Mg but it's not very frequently used in practice. Mostly because use of metric tonnes was already diffused

Keep in mind that there is more than just SI units used in Europe in the past. For example if you read through an old thermodynamics textbook in Italian it is likely to use a lot calories and often the CGS system (centimeter grams second and calories).

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But it literally is a kiloton? Mostly getting used for explosives if you talk about it, but it's used:

kiloton /ˈkɪlə(ʊ)tʌn/
noun: kiloton; plural noun: kilotons; noun: kilotonne; plural noun: kilotonnes
a unit of explosive power equivalent to 1,000 tons of TNT.

The reason megagram isn't used much is because it would be shortened to mg. Which is usually milligram. Sure, you could go the "Mg" route compared to "mg", but that sucks. So "t" for ton works well. It's just another name though, it doesn't matter.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah, I know. But you have the problem with the letter 'm' everytime. You just have to pay attention and write it correctly. And there is also 'micro-' in addition to the 'milli' and 'mega' you mentioned. However, most of the time it's unlikely you're off by a factor of 1 billion and won't notice. Just do it right: 'µ, 'm', 'M'. (Also there are other letters like the 'p'. But there's an even bigger difference between those two.)

If you listen to my school teacher, you're not supposed to use SI prefixes with other things. I think that's not true but would apply to the 'kiloton'. People wouldn't like me talking about a 'kilo-foot' or 'milli-yard'... I've had 3 deca-spoons of soup or there were 2.5 kilo-people at the concert... It took me 15 milli-days to finish the task... What? 1k8 euros for a graphics card?

I don't think there is a clear line. The SI unit system is good. But we still have plenty things that aren't a certain way because of history and 'reasons'.

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[–] PP_BOY_ 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

For example we also say it's 20 degrees celsius outside. And that's not the proper SI unit either

Can you elaborate on this? As an American without much experience with the SI system, I wouldn't think twice if someone said this to me

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

The SI unit for temperature is Kelvin

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

What would you like to know? Regarding temperatures: 'Kelvin' is the proper SI unit. It starts with 0 at absolute zero. And then uses the same size for units as celsius uses. So 0°C (the point at which ice made from water melts) is 273.15 Kelvin. 20°C about where you'd wear a t-shirt is about 293 K. So we don't say it that way but keep saying it's 15 or 30°C outside.

Scientists do it right. When you're melting metal or talking about the temperature of the sun, you won't have small numbers anyways and you won't benefit from using celsius. That way you'll have the 0 at the true 0 and aren't arbitrarily using water at earth's atmospheric pressure as your basis. You can translate it easily, anyways. Just add and substract the 273.15. You don't need a formula and a calculator like when you translate between fahrenheit and celsius.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (13 children)

No good reason, just historical inertia and resistance to change. People stick to what they're familiar with, either the imperial system or to common metric units. Making a "metric ton" similar in size to an "imperial ton" arguably helped make it easier for some people to transition to metric.

Megagram is a perfectly cromulent unit, just like "cromulent" is a perfectly cromulent word, but people still don't use it very often. That's just how language works. People use the words they prefer, and those words become common. Maybe if you start describing things in megagrams other people will also start doing it and it will become a common part of the language. Language is organic like that, there isn't anyone making decisions on its behalf, although some people and organizations try.

[–] 13esq 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The sort of person that insists on calling a ton a megagram is probably going to be the same sort of insufferable Jimmy Neutron arsehole that insists on calling salt "sodium chloride".

Yes you're technically correct, but people experience food as salty, no one is going to say "this food is very sodium chloridy!" and it's the same situation with tons and megagrams

[–] FooBarrington 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] 13esq 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I order a megagram of sodium chloride and you bring me 1.000001 tons?!?! REEEE3EEEEEEEEE!!!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Similarly large volumes of water should be given in kl, Ml, Gl etc. instead of m^3. Which one is bigger 2500000 m^3 or 790000 m^3? Count the zeros if you want and then tell me if using appropriate prefixes would have made it easier to tell the difference.

[–] 13esq 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If you see an IBC of water, do you see 1m³ or a thousand individual liters?

There's nothing wrong with describing things the way that you experience them. It makes sense to use which ever units express the idea most simply.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

If you used scientific notation or commas (or periods, depending on region) to format those numbers for human consumption, that would also make it easier.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I brought a shit ton of tacos. Or I have supplied us with a faecal megagram of tacos. You be the judge.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am shocked by how well your latter example emphasizes an extremely large quantity of tacos.

I vote for that one.

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[–] marcos 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm all for megagram. If nothing, it will stop the senseless people that insists on using imperial unities from confusing everybody.

[–] CrayonRosary 3 points 1 year ago

WE MUST HAVE IMPERIAL UNITY!

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Two relevant details:

  • The OG metric system (from the XVIII century) had no prefix for 10⁶. "Mega-" would be only formally acknowledged by the SI in 1960.
  • The ton units (yup, plural) backtrack all the way to a volume unit from the Middle Ages, the amount of liquid that you'd be able to put in a big arse cask*

Based on those two things, I think that the ton was standardised to 10⁶g considerably before the name "megagram" had the chance to appear, to the point that it became the default name across languages.

*I don't know the English name for the cask [EDIT: "tun" acc. to @[email protected] ], but in Portuguese it's "tonel". From that "tonelada" (the unit). It used to be 800kg before the metric system though.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

FYI the English name of that cask is "tun".

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Thanks for the info. (To be honest I couldn't be bothered to look for it.)

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[–] FuglyDuck 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Mega pints are more fun.

Okay in all seriousness, though, the “ton” has been in use for far longer than the gram or the metric system .

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

The fuck ton being the oldest example

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[–] Harpsist 12 points 1 year ago

Apparently megagram is the correct term! Someone else was just posting about another metric question and they posted some historical reasons for why megagram never took off.

That car weighs in at 6 megagrams.

Yes.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

More-common terms in any language tend to be shorter or at least less standard/more irregular.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

i do see Mg instead of t in publications sometimes

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Also, same issue as with MB and mb, you might confuse megagram with milligram

Although that's not really the reason, more like an argument to keep it this way

[–] Synthead 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

And you might confuse MB, megabytes, with MiB, mebibytes. MB is typically used to measure storage, and MiB typically used to measure data. There's 1000 bytes in a kilobyte, and 1024 bytes in a kibibyte.

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[–] SocialMediaRefugee 8 points 1 year ago

A really big grandmother

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The official unit name is megagram. Ton is just used much more commonly.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I've never heard of gigameter or gigalitre

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