Unfortunately it's not the people here that need to read this
this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2023
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In this community? It's useful for talking points
Lemmy in general? There's a lot of people on Lemmy who need to read this.
Yeah, wow. Post got me using the bookmark function.
It might help someone explain it later though, it's a good parallel
You’d be surprised how widespread misunderstanding of systemic racism is, even on the left.
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... did you just straight-up post a reddit comment?
Aaand? People have always sent screenshots of posts from other social media on social media. Nothing new.
Yes, lol.
But in my defense, I’ve had this saved on my phone for over a year, and I probably got it from /r/196 to begin with :p
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Well how else am I gonna read it? Open it on reddit???
yeah, at the very least have a decency to crop the r***t UI.
If you think that the problems (inequalities) racism brought ceased to exist with segregation, try learning about red-lining and how countless black neighborhoods got unfairly bulldozed to make space for highways. All that stuff happened only a lifetime ago, of course its effects can still be felt today.
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You could also use the same reasoning to argue that colonialism hasn't really ended either, when the colonialists went home they still left behind the scars of centuries of exploitation, that shit doesn't get washed away in a day.
Wells Fargo to pay $175 million in race discrimination probe - Reuters (2012) And let's not forget stuff like this happened just within the last 15 years.
Damn this is an excellent example. I'm 100% going to use this image in the future, thanks!
The analogy is a little shaky but yeah that's a pretty good intro. The hard issue to solve here is with how this injustice is resolved. I think the most reasonable solution attacks the problem directly: rewriting racist laws (like zoning) and punishing or heavily disincentivising racist behavior in government officials (including police and judges). In the analogy, this would be equivalent to enacting hotel policies against discrimination and retrofitting disabled-accessible options into the building.
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What view are they trying to counter here? I understand all the words of the post and I agree with the logic but I don't see in what situation this argument is useful. Perhaps I'm lucky not to have been exposed to the people for whom it would be useful...
Edit: I saw some very clear answers to my questions after scrolling down a bit. I think I just didn't understand what the term "systemic" meant here.
There are people who believe that any kind of fix to counter discrimination is unnecessary, because "well I'm not racist, and I certainly haven't discriminated in X way, so nothing needs to change". They are either unaware or ignoring the reality that the effects of past discrimination don't go away just because the people that did it are gone.
Thank you. I never thought of it that way even though I'm quite passionate about the topic. Passionate but not well informed it seems...
"wow you are trying to punish x people for wrongdoings of their parents/grandparents" is the argument it's trying to counter.
But on top of that, the previous owner raised the new one. On top of the hotel issue we now have the same issues, but with the new owner
Oh that's neat!
It's different with racism, because it's easier and cheaper to stop racist practices than it is to modify a building. And modifying a building isn't hard or all that expensive.
Yeah that's why we need to fight harder
Does a business owner need to accommodate disabled people? Answer in your own opinion
By law, yes, because you people wouldn't never account for any kind of minority unless if forced.
Y'all wouldn't return the cart unless to recover the coin. There's people beating up rough sleepers. People are intrinsically selfish
Not all people are intrinsically selfish. Most people return the cart.
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Yes
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I thought this was fuckcars for a second and it would end differently , but very similarly!! Car centrism is another form of discrimination.
Yes! I’m very glad to live in a place where at 32 I still don’t need a driver’s license. I can see how crippling and isolating it can be to need a car (e.g. North America), but not being able to drive it.
I’m very much a car guy. I love cars, I love driving them, I love fixing them, etc.
I wholeheartedly wish they were purely optional. Please put less people on the roads, let more people use cheaper public transportation, and let those distracted drivers stay out of heavy machinery!
Not to mention, sometimes walking is just preferred. I visited Chicago without a car and it was fantastic. Walking and trains were all I needed, and it was great. Definitely want more of that around, especially for cross country options.
Idk who has to pay, are you trying to say old families that had slaves in any country and it can be proven they did should have to pay? So much shit that's happened in history has had no reparations.
Like what?
You want examples of systemic racism?
- Poverty is inherited and it's impossible to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Black people in America are poor because they used to be slaves
- White cultural traditions are legal in Australia. Many aboriginal cultural traditions have been made illegal in Australia due to land ownership changes
- Black people are under-represented in universities, so the university scientists building facial recognition apps aren't building them to work on black people
- Schools teach their lessons in english. Multilingual students who don't speak english at home often have a disadvantage in lessons that will be felt their whole lives
- Children of illegal immigrants may have never received identification such as a birth certificate and it can be hard to get this as an adult
- Whenever the police use robotic and computer systems to detect criminals the AI ends up racial profiling and harassing black people
Poverty is inherited and it's impossible to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Black people in America are poor because they used to be slaves
That's capitalism's fault. Poor white kids would face the same issues.
Black people are under-represented in universities, so the university scientists building facial recognition apps aren't building them to work on black people
That's just a lack of data points and not a system constructed by anyone. The data points should be increasing naturally.
Schools teach their lessons in english. Multilingual students who don't speak english at home often have a disadvantage in lessons that will be felt their whole lives
It'd be awesome if we can just solve language barriers generally. Before we can do that having a single official language in working situations seems to be not avoidable for productivity.
Children of illegal immigrants may have never received identification such as a birth certificate and it can be hard to get this as an adult
Not related to racism.
Whenever the police use robotic and computer systems to detect criminals the AI ends up racial profiling and harassing black people
Is this happening? I think it's straight out wrong to predict criminals with AI trained on previous data.
All in all I agree that many of the existing systems sucks but I don't think it's helpful to link every problem to racism. Disclaimer: I'm not black or white
That’s just a lack of data points and not a system constructed by anyone. The data points should be increasing naturally.
But why is the data lacking in the first place?
Lack of public black faces as suggested by previous comment? That's not a "system" tho, which would imply something like a policy to reject black faces as learning data.
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That’s capitalism’s fault. Poor white kids would face the same issues.
True, but that's not what the discussion was about. Black kids are disproportionately poorer than white kids, and that's because they inherited inequalities from the past, which came about because of slavery and systematic racism.
It’d be awesome if we can just solve language barriers generally. Before we can do that having a single official language in working situations seems to be not avoidable for productivity
What you are suggesting is a lingua franca, which is already the norm in multilingual countries. That's quite different from having a colonial language dominating over the others.
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I'd add for the "school in English/dominant spoken language" part (because compared to the other it doesn't seem that bad) in a quite a few cases it stems from a previous active effort to suppress a culture that was never really 'fixed', not simply just "eh I don't understand so why do I have to cater for it?".
If you're European, chances are you can name a good few examples that happened in your borders, both as something you did or something that was used against you
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Schools teach their lessons in english.
When you have to pick a language to teach in, isn't this the best language to teach in though, in a predominantly English speaking society?
I don't think segregating classes into separate language-based ones would be a good idea. That leaves kids not speaking English at home nor at school in an even bigger disadvantage in terms of learning English and we need we need kids of all different backgrounds mixing together so that they may understand and accept one another.
The solution are extra English lessons for both the kids and the parents, and financial support so that the parents can afford the time to learn English at these classes
That's a good solution, yes.
Though good luck convincing governments, that continue to cut funding for important social programs like these, to bother supporting minorities in schools.
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Jerry mandering
Someone should tell Jerry to stop that
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