Oh honey, you won't have to worry about that since I'll be lying about my current salary because it's none of your fucking business.
this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2025
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This guy expect people to assume all the risks associated with starting at a new company (without whatever network they've built up) for free?
What I find funny is competitors offering 50% more, while knowing you will be joining without knowing their internal intricacies, yet the current employer doesn't want to match it even though you are already well versed in their systems. So, as discussed, pay me 50% more or I go.
It’s less funny when you realize that the people around you that aren’t moving jobs are the ones being taken advantage of and despite being a good little worker bee are getting the most screwed by the company.
Companies realized that people don’t like moving jobs every 3 years and that you hate the friction as much as they do of learning new systems. And so they can take advantage of you and even if they only get to do that for a few years without giving you decent raises, you leaving doesn’t matter when other workers stay there for 5-10+ years getting underpaid.
Essentially this is the only system capitalism could ever have arrived it. People forget that not only does capitalism take advantage of people through the exploitation of their resources, but it also takes direct advantage of their behavior and psychology.
I don't mind the system crap that much, but I always loathe how many of my future team mates are technical psychopaths, and how dysfunctional leadership is.
Nobody wants to pay wages anymore
What's with "As discussed"?
Corporate email way of saying "I already told you. Are you not listening?"
Or maybe a reminder to actually fulfill the agreed upon contract. But that would assume, he is a lying cheapskate, which is very unrealistic for a CEO...
Meh, I use 'as discussed' when I want to commit something I have discussed over the phone, to email. So there is a paper trail when the thing that was discussed doesn't happen, or gets fucked up somehow.
Ah thanks. Construction guy, ain't an amazing gig but we don't have this particular work pain
It is also a way of alluding to something without stating it in a digital paper trail. Most of the corporate climbers I've known are like this with email. They'll say something on the phone but avoid putting it in email.
"As discussed" means your people don't trust your lying ass. You bet I'm gonna send you an email with all the shit you want me to do, but can't be bothered to send me in a clear traceable email.
The option is it's a passive aggressive I TOLD YOU ALREADY, dumbfuck! Take notes if you don't remember the outcome of the useless meetings you put in my calender!
Here's the thing. How the fuck are they going to know my salary demands is 50% more than at my current job? I certainly won't tell you how much I make but I'll tell you what it will take for me to make a switch.
Exactly! Never tell a new employer how much you're currently making, and ideally never tell them how much you expect to make. Get them to make the first offer if you can, they'll often offer about 10-15% below what they'd be willing to pay, so there's room to negotiate. Even if you like the offer, see if you can get a little bit more, such as extra time off or a signing bonus, just make sure to leave some wiggle to accept the offer instead of them retracting it (they don't want to hire someone who is greedy, but they do want to hire you if they make an offer).
If "as discussed" is the most ridiculous thing he's ever heard, he should start listening more.
Yeah, or his staff are making sure they've got receipts.
it’s not asking for a 50% raise… it’s giving you the opportunity to retain talent and knowledge for the same rate as a competitor has offered
Never take the counter offer though. Take the new gig. If your employer didn't value you they arent going to suddenly start. They are just buying time to find a replacement.
I'm sure someone will fill the need to tell me of the 1% times it works out but in general it's almost always better to take the new gig.
Here's an alternative perspective: if they counter offer, you're probably still underpaid, so you may want to accept and keep looking for the next few months using the new salary as your new base expectation. But absolutely make sure you're never going to come back to that org if you leave within a year of accepting the counter offer.
"You're asking for another raise? We gave you that huge one two years ago"
That huge raise: 1.5%
That ~~huge raise~~ cost of living adjustment (that doesn't even make up for wage lost through inflation.)
If you're not going to take the counter offer, why even bring it up? I suppose it would be a message to your old boss that they ought to offer more when seeking your replacement, but they won't. Maybe you could share the information with the person most likely to be forced into doing all your work under their old title and at their old wage.
I think there are two paths:
- unsolicited. I put in my notice, boss asks how much I'm getting offered and makes a counteroffer.
- solicited. I get an offer and let my boss know a company is offering X and ask if they'll give Y.
I think the line of thinking of intentionally trying to get a counteroffer is that if you get a counter offer you could take it to the new employer and try to get them to match. In a worker's market that might get you some more money but in a employer's market your only real choice is to go with the new employer. Does it hurt to ask? Maybe not, but id rather not risk it since at that stage you've already informed your boss of the new job offer so if anything goes wrong, your old employer is still going to start looking for a replacement.
Ofc, at the time salary is discussed you are talking with HR so it's slightly less risk, but they still might have a candidate #2 and #3 on standby.
Yeah, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the new company to beat it by a bit. Tell them you'll verbally accept if they meet, say, 5-10% above the counter offer or even a one-time sign-on bonus because you'd like a change of pace anyway but want some compensation for taking the risk of making the jump.
They say this but it's not my experience. Really depends on the company and opportunities.
In my experience being both and employee and employer it's not usually the best move to stay. You were leaving for a reason. If the reason was not money, then all it's done is convince you to put up with it for longer. If it was money, it's just a matter of time till someone offers more, and the company knows that. They will build redundancy and remove you so you don't disrupt business by surprising them with an exit.
If you're not making enough there it's because the company doesn't want to pay you more or can't. If a company is paying you more than they would like, they're not just going to accept that, action will be taken to fill that spot at the desired price point.
Is all this right and moral, of course not. But capitalism never is, especially these days.
I got the impression he means it the other way around: he has to offer people 50% more than they currently earn to get them to switch jobs from the competition to his company.
In plain English, "I don't even deserve courtesy notice that you will no longer be coming in. "
Tell me you are underpaying your employees without telling me you are underpaying your employees.
And tell me you like to blame employees for your decisions without saying that you like to blame employees for your decisions.
Your past salary does not matter to your new boss
Never answer such a question honestly.
Don't answer dishonestly either. Just don't answer. If they press, you probably won't want to work for them anyway.
I've lied, successfully, in salary negotiations. I'm also an ex hiring manager fwiw :)
It works, provided you know what a reasonable salary is. But if you say something unreasonable, they're not going to counter lower, they'll just end the interview process.
I've done hiring as well, but I've never been on the other side of the table for salary negotiations, only for technical interviews. But that's the wisdom I've heard from people in the business, let the company make the offer and counter a bit higher. Revealing your hand merely reduces your options.
Well, anchoring works even when totally unreasonable. Never let the employer say the first number.
Another example of how the anchoring bias can influence monetary decisions is within salary negotiations. If you are negotiating a salary and your boss begins with an initial salary that is low after negotiating, you might be more likely to accept a lower salary than you would have if your boss had begun with a higher initial salary.
https://www.simplypsychology.org/what-is-the-anchoring-bias.html
Oh, certainly have a number in mind. If their number isn't close to the one you have in mind, tell them they're quite far off and see what they come back with, they may overshoot.
The only time you'd want to give a number is if you have a very good idea of what they're willing to pay, and I think a lot of people undervalue themselves.
Bitch, you would get the privilege of making a counteroffer out of the magnanimity of my heart and the immense patience I have for what is undoubtedly exemplary C level shittiness.
It's not a right.
The #hiring tag on the profile picture is the cherry on top
I periodically read ask a manager, and i’m curious about just how she’d take someone like this to task. Probably something about choosing to underpay your staff means you’ll have higher than necessary turnover, and star performers will never come work for you.
In the job they're in, people already know the scope of the job they have to do as well as the quality of the work environment and colleagues they have, plus have the comfort of a well established routine, whilst at a new job they don't - moving jobs is both a disruption and a risk so it is absolutely natural for people to only do it if they either have no other choice or stand to gain from taking that risk.
Only suckers move jobs for no gain.
That said, the "gain" needs even not be more pay (for example great career opportunities or interesting projects can also work), it's just that from the point of view of a prospective employee, more money is a low risk benefit (because it's pretty much guaranteed since it's there black and white in a contract), whilst things like promises of great career opportunities or working in interesting projects are high risk because they might just be bullshit, oversold or not materialize for some reason or other, so in the risk-reward calculus in the mind of anybody with even the most basic business sense, a low risk reward is worth more than an equivalent reward with higher risk, so more money tends to be preferred.
That this guy can't actually understand what is a pretty basic piece of human Economic thinking leads me to believe that he probably has no other option than to offer more money because either he has nothing else to offer that would attract people away from other companies, people simply don't trust his promises or overselling of how great working in his company is or they fear that a job at a company he is managing is more likely to be lost due to the company failing.
If an employer doesn't think I am worth it and won't pay me more without asking I'd rather find one that apreciates what I do and leave. Last place I worked had every VP call me and ask if they could do anything or pay me more. Welp should've asked me that a year ago mate. They also said misogynistic things and made it a lot easier to leave lol.
I'm reading his post the other way around: I think he is bitching and moaning about having to offer a lot more money to attract somebody from the competition.
The situation were somebody has already chosen to leave and the opde employers offers more money as a last ditch effort to keep that employee is a whole different affair with, as you pointed out, the whole element that them offering you more money when you're about to leave means that they've knowingly been underpaying you all along.
Ah perhaps it is a LinkedIn lunatic afteral. I wouldn't want to work with that toxicity for millions lol
Same thing happened last time. I switched jobs. I was like "I've been telling you all the problems with this place for 2 years. Why are you even asking now?"
Well he can go suck a lemon
This is how capitalism works.