this post was submitted on 28 Dec 2024
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Suck it micro USB, mini USB, and lightning! πŸͺ«πŸ”‹

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[–] Buddahriffic 2 points 6 days ago

Does this law allow for any standards progression or is it USB-c forever?

[–] [email protected] 110 points 1 week ago (18 children)

My only concern with this law, is that what happens when USBC is no longer the best option. Idk how to express what I’m saying but what if USB-G ends up being 1000x as fast. Does this law allow for chargers to evolve and if so, how? I admit I haven’t looked into this but I’ve been wondering about it.

I’m 99% wireless these days so I wouldn’t be surprised if chorded chargers are largely on their way out, but I’m still curious.

[–] ozymandias117 328 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Manufacturers are allowed to add supplementary charging standards on top of USB-C PD, and the commission is required to review the landscape every 5 years to see if a new technology is better than USB-C that should be adopted in the future

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv%3AOJ.L_.2022.315.01.0030.01.ENG&toc=OJ%3AL%3A2022%3A315%3ATOC

[–] [email protected] 121 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Awesome! I knew by commenting someone educated would come along. Thank you very much.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's like when I make it rain or snow by washing my vehicle! I'm giving you part of the credit for it being future-focused...

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago

And they're using recommendations from the USB consortium, which is comprised of all the large manufacturers in the world, so it should always be up to date during the review process.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Manufacturers are allowed to add supplementary charging standards on top of USB-C PD

Controversial opinion: I wish this wasn't the case. So many different proprietary protocols, most of the time you'll still need a specific adapter, and in some cases even a proprietary cable to utilize the full speed, and nowadays most devices come without the adapter.
And there's even PPS in the PD spec allowing to request for a specific voltage rather than something in an existing list.

But I do also have some personal grievances here:

  1. Mi TurboCharge - This may be something based on PD, but still being something separate. I don't know, but I do know it requires more pins than USB-A has. 5 pins. Somewhere I read this is connected to a CC pin in the USB-C connector. But no, they did not use USB-C, they used USB-A, with an extra pin. Only shortly before the phone died I finally figured out why it wasn't charging as fast as expected - I wasn't using their proprietary cable.

  2. My current phone's interference (?) with Qualcomm QC 2.0 - Somehow when using a cable with non-perfect connection on QC-compatible adapters, when I move the USB-A connector, it starts triggering 12V mode until it finally shows overvoltage error and slows down to 7W. QC 2.0 is how my USB tester identifies it. This is a MediaTek-based device, so I don't think it would support QC. The original adapter uses PD and some 11V 6A thing with unknown protocol. Perhaps that is where the problem originates, I don't know what data it sends down. But testing with OTG adapter on the original brick it seems the protocol needs the extra pins of USB-C to work properly.

I've had 3 phones that supported some fast charging, so far 2 of them made it into a confusing mess. Had they all used just PD it would have been a better experience.

[–] ozymandias117 18 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I agree, but at least requiring USB PD, as it's written, will at least give you 240 watt USB-C charging if they offer higher than 240 watt charging through a proprietary standard

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (29 children)

USB-C doesn't have speeds, it's just a connector type. USB 1, 2, 3-3.2, 4 etc. is the protocol responsible for speed. You can have a USB-C connector with any implementation (except maybe USB 1). It can even do DisplayPort stuff.
So for USB-C to become irrelevant we need to come up with a better connector form factor. Which is unlikely to happen soon. But also, same thing happened with USB-B Micro connector (colloquially called micro USB), it was designated as a standard (but Apple managed to get an exemption) and manufacturers had no issues moving to a better connector, which is USB-C.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 week ago (1 children)

On the downside, you can’t tell what the port supports by just looking at it.

[–] MycelialMass 28 points 1 week ago (5 children)
[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Even with this graphic, I still don't know what they support. Is circle-20 also 20gbps? What is the speed when there's no number? Do the non-DP ones not support displays at all? And there appears to be no such thing as USB4-DP?

And good luck getting your grandmother to identify any of this over the phone. "Is it marked SS-subway diagram-20, or circle-20-subwaydiagram? Yes it's etched gray on slightly different gray, go put on your strongest glasses first, grandma."

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[–] shalafi 32 points 1 week ago (6 children)

The plug will be the same, bet money. There are already several sorts of USB-C. And think on this, the USB-A has had the same shape for going on 30-years.

[–] halcyoncmdr 24 points 1 week ago (12 children)

This, USB-C is just the connector shape. USB-A is the standard square plug everyone knows, USB-B has several different ends, some more well known than others. The full sized "printer/hub" one, mini-B and micro-B which more people know. USB-A to A cables aren't common, more akin to an Ethernet crossover cable, so you're almost always going to see one of the B connectors.

USB-C is just the newest plug design, the actual cable and communication protocols have changed numerous times over the decades. USB-C might have been introduced alongside USB 3.0 and the massive increase in charging and data speeds with the new standard, but they are not exclusive.

The most obvious example is probably the iPhone 15 and 16, both had a USB-C plug, but the devices only supported USB 2.0 protocols.

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[–] dustyData 20 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If you bothered to read the article, you'd notice that the charger was chosen by the manufacturers a decade ago in a summons by the European commission. If Apple had complied to do what they agreed to do back then, this law wouldn't exist. But they got whiny and litigious. So, instead of an at will standardization program, the EU decided to make it mandatory by law, to shut Apple up, and anyone else who wanted to forcibly refuse to comply. The cool thing about European law is that nothing is written in stone. Not even constitutions are considered sacred, unlike in the Americas, and can be changed at any point or amended as long as proper procedures are followed. There's nothing, ever, preventing the EU from calling another commission of tech companies to choose a new charger, if a better one ever shows up.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago (29 children)

You should verify this, but I think there is like a consortium of sorts made up of tech companies that pick a standard that they all must follow. So in the future, it’s possible for them to pick a new standard, and then after a transition period everything would be required to switch (though of course you could still continue using old devices, they just can no longer be sold new).

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[–] IndustryStandard 104 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Now for those swappable batteries

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 week ago (19 children)

Including cars.

Drive in, swap non-proprietary batteries with an autoloader, drive out. Done.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago (10 children)

Yes and no. No need to hot swap massive EV batteries. Rapid is fast enough. But yes so the EV can be upgraded. The batteries go obsolete quicker than they degrade. So make it so we can swap the batteries and keep the rest running. In fact, just right-to-repair the whole car. In fact, the whole everything!

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 week ago

That's actually the next goal

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[–] [email protected] 90 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Eu once again doing more to improve my life than my own government (tax holiday).

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[–] reddig33 54 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Please do this for things like rechargeable electric shavers and toothbrushes as well.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 week ago (6 children)

The benefit is that by being standardized, there will be less proprietary cords and adapters. And the capability of USB-C should be adequate for sometime with the power and data transfer.

One issue, is that not all USBC cords are of the same quality. I found this recently when trying to find a cord that can be used for an external SSD, and video for a monitor. Some cords worked, the rest did not. All the cords could be used for charging, but after that, all bets are off.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 week ago (9 children)

Can we bring back the charging as well, and not just the USB cable... Oh, and while you're at it, screws instead of glue, to replace batteries would be awesome.

Thx!

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 week ago (4 children)

There's a rule coming into effect in 2027 that enforces user replaceable batteries for devices in the EU. https://www.pcmag.com/news/eu-smartphones-must-have-user-replaceable-batteries-by-2027

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 week ago (5 children)

while 2027 is better than nothing, I still wonder why it took them so long. Glue in smartphones has been around for probably a decade now.

Also, I think, anything that has a battery, should be user replacable... even teeny-tiny earbuds.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago (2 children)

To allow the manufacturers to adapt and phase out?

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[–] postmateDumbass 39 points 1 week ago

USA checking in.

Just bought a new USB-C charging beard trimmer on clearance.

Feels good, man.

Thamks if EU helped.

[–] Gammelfisch 33 points 1 week ago

Kudos to the EU, end the waste.

[–] AA5B 30 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Now if only we can standardize cables or at least labeling. We went from everything working wherever it would plugin to everything plugging in but who knows if it will work

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (19 children)

While this is good news, the likes of Apple will still find ways to be "compliant" while still being total assholes about it. e.g. the device might charge with USB C but they'll gimp the data transfer rates on non-pro phones. And they'll do the same when mandates about repairability come in - all of a sudden the battery will have a bunch of expensive DRM'd up the ass circuitry attached to it that will cripple the phone if its not recognized or registered by one of their techs and means Apple can kill old phones by being "out of stock" of the battery.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 week ago (7 children)

Good πŸ‘ I just hope nothing replaces USB-C anytime soon

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Only suck it lightning. It still allows standard chargers like micro USB and mini USB

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