this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2024

257 points (99.2% liked)

Atheism

4087 readers

123 users here now

Community Guide

Archive Today will help you look at paywalled content the way search engines see it.

Statement of Purpose

This is a support and conversation community for people who don't believe in gods.
Superstition hucksters have no reason to subscribe or post here at all.
If you are looking to debate or proselytize, options will be linked lower in the sidebar.

Acceptable

Honest questions or conversations.
Discussions on parenting or advice.
Struggles, frustrations, coming out.
Atheist memes. We can have fun!
News headlines relevant to atheism.

Unacceptable

Depending on severity, you might be warned before adverse action is taken.

Anything against site rules.
Illegal and/or NSFW material.
Troll posts and comments. There will be no attempt to explain what that means.
Leading questions, agenda pushing, or disingenuous attempts to bait members.
Personal attacks or flaming.

Inadvisable

Self promotion or upvote farming.
Excessive shitposting or off-topic discussion.

Application of warnings or bans will be subject to moderator discretion. Feel free to appeal. If changes to the guidelines are necessary, they will be adjusted.

If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathizer or a resemblant of a group that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of any other group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you you will be banned on sight.

Provable means able to provide proof to the moderation, and, if necessary, to the community.

 ~ /c/nostupidquestions

If you want your space listed in this sidebar and it is especially relevant to the atheist or skeptic communities, PM DancingPickle and we'll have a look!

Connect with Atheists

Matrix: #atheism:envs.net

Help and Support Links

Streaming Media

This is mostly YouTube at the moment. Podcasts and similar media - especially on federated platforms - may also feature here.

Orgs, Blogs, Zines

Mainstream

Bibliography

Start here...

...proceed here.

Proselytize Religion

Convince an Atheist

From Reddit

As a community with an interest in providing the best resources to its members, the following wiki links are provided as historical reference until we can establish our own.

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

Rhynoplaz

257

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton sues Christian ministry that helps the homeless (www.friendlyatheist.com)

submitted 4 days ago by [email protected] to c/atheism

46 comments fedilink hide all child comments

What’s interesting about this lawsuit, though, is that Paxton is effectively suing a Christian ministry for helping unhoused people—and the ministry plans to respond to the threat by saying they have a religious right to assist others:

top 46 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 84 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

The fact that Ken Paxton is not suffering his way through a painful and terminal illness is proof that there is no god.

EDIT: As always, Austin keeps fighting the flood of fascism coming from Capitol building like Hodor holding the door. We all know how that ends but they still hold back the monsters.

[–] chemical_cutthroat 32 points 4 days ago (3 children)

I'm not gonna pick a side in this one, I'm just here for the Christian on Christian violence.

[–] kryptonianCodeMonkey 56 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Nah, A) fuck Paxton forever. B) he's suing them because they are giving the homeless clean needles to prevent the spread of disease. Whatever other problematic Christian charities exist or even other aspects of this charity/program that may be problematic, this is a very very needed and net good cause that should be protected. Also, C) Again, fuck Paxton. Paxton can sit on the biggest diseased cock with a barb wire condom. Eat shit and die, Paxton.

[+] chemical_cutthroat -19 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. A useful Christian is still a hateful, bigoted monster. Sure, the money they put into helping is something that is needed, but where else is their money and effort going? If they were just in it to be good, they'd be a non-profit, not a church. A fever that gives you blissful visions only does so because it is destroying your brain.

edit: sorry, I forgot I wasn't in c/militant_athiesm

[–] zloubida 13 points 4 days ago (1 children)

These sentences show more hate than most Christians I know IRL would show during all our conversations.

[+] chemical_cutthroat -6 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Actions speak louder than words. I'm glad your conversations are going well. I bet all the people that have been raped by the clergy will be happy to know they are using their inside voices. I bet if you leave a note on the graves of the women that have died because they can't get proper healthcare during their pregnancy their family will really appreciate the sentiment.

You want vitriol? You want hate? Fuck the church, fuck the clergy. I don't give a fuck who they are outside of the church, they kill, they rape, and they murder under the banner of Christ's love. And if one of them says they don't, then ask them if they make their tithes, because every dime of that goes towards pedophiles, bigots, racists, and homophobes. FUCK ALL OF THEM and I'll say it to their faces. And fuck you if you don't do the same.

[–] FlyingSquid 15 points 3 days ago

Actions speak louder than words.

This group's actions are to help homeless people. And you don't like it. It doesn't speak well of you.

[–] zloubida 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You speak about acts? In my country, France, Jews were saved during WWII thanks to churches who hid them, abortion is legal partly thanks to Christians and christian organizations, churches married homosexuals before it was legal. People are fed, protected, housed every day regardless of who they are or what they believe every day by Christians and christian organizations. When you judge someone or some organization, look at the acts of this individual or this organization, not the acts of other individuals and other organizations who share nothing but a name.

Fuck the rapists, fuck those who hid and protect them. Fuck the institutions who allow violence to continue and stay unpunished. Fuck the bigots and everyone who spread hate, whether Christian or not.

[–] chemical_cutthroat -1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

look at the acts of this individual or this organization, not the acts of other individuals and other organizations who share nothing but a name.

Christianity is a choice. No one is born a Christian. You don't get to choose to be part of a hate group and then say, "But not me, I'm not a bad one." What, are you gonna tell me that there are some Nazis out there picking up litter on the side of the road, so I should buy a "Not All Nazis" bumper sticker? Fuck off with that logic. We can very much judge a member of a voluntary cult by their worst members, because their worst members are tolerated. Their doctrine is tolerated. Their hate is tolerated.

When the Christians toss out all of the bad parts of the Bible, then we can talk, but none of them are doing that, are they? Where is the Church of the Good Bits and None of the Hate Speech? Not really making waves, are they? Turns out, it's because no one wants to do that. The whole scripture is their holy book, and their book says "God Hates F*gs." The people that lead their churches rape children. The people that sit in the pews kill minorities. Oh, there are some good ones out there? You know what? Kill them all, let their god sort them out.

I'm happy that you have a long history of nothing but good Christians in France. Surely, no Christian has ever done anything bad in France.

The Crusades
The Inquisition
The St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre
The persecution of the Huguenots
The expulsion of the Jews in 1182
The expulsion of the Jews in 1306
The French colonization of Africa by missionaries
And let's not forget the Catholics attempting to maintain control over the country by opposing the separation of church and state.

Take your baguette and nail it to a cross.

[–] zloubida 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You know that there is more than one Christian organization, right? Why should Huguenots (which are Christians) for example be considered responsible for the persecution of the Huguenots? Should Christian homosexuals be considered homophobic, even if their particular church doesn't tolerate bigotry?

[–] chemical_cutthroat 0 points 3 days ago (2 children)

You know that there is more than one Christian organization, right?

Only one Bible, and they all follow the same bullshit.

Why should Huguenots (which are Christians) for example be considered responsible for the persecution of the Huguenots?

The Catholics hunted down and killed Protestants. I mean, one less, right? But still, pretty heinous for a group that is all, "love thy neighbor".

Should Christian homosexuals be considered homophobic, even if their particular church doesn’t tolerate bigotry?

Would a black person that sells out their black friends to the white slave owner be racist? I don't know, we just call them Uncle Tom. You want to keep going with this, or will you concede that it is a really stupid question?

Look, you aren't going to win this by sticking up for the Christians. Even the best ones. Because there are no best ones. There are only Christians. The ones that sheltered Jews in WWII are the same that expelled them in the 12th century. The ones that say "thou shalt not murder" are the same ones that led the inquisition and tortured and killed hundreds of thousands. They are all the same, because they voluntarily joined with them.

By all means, keep tolerating the Christians. It's your general disregard for their hideous practices that allows them to continue. None of them are forced to be "Christian". You can worship god and not wave it around like a fucking banner, at least then you would just be an idiot, instead of everything else we've mentioned. They choose to be Christian, because it is what they want. And what they want is to be part of a hate group, because that's what Christianity is.

[–] zloubida 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You continue to treat Christianity as a united group, which it is not. What you do is like putting members of the Democratic and Republican parties in the same group because there's “party” in the name…

Same goes for history: the Democratic party was the party of slave owners, thus being member of the Democratic party in the 21st century makes you a slaver?

[–] chemical_cutthroat 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You continue to treat Christianity as a united group, which it is not. What you do is like putting members of the Democratic and Republican parties in the same group because there’s “party” in the name…

Democratic and Republican parties are in the same group... They are fucking politicians. You know what, I was gonna call you a fucking moron for that one, but it's actually a pretty good analogy. No one is born a Democrat, or a Republican. It is a choice. Same with Anarchism, Communism, and Socialism. You can be whatever you want to be. You can be a Christian, Muslim, Buddist, or any other religion you want. YOU CHOOSE. And there hasn't been a point in history where Christians haven't been fucking shit up. If there was a number board with "Days since we last fucked a child," it would never get passed 0. It's not like there has been a long golden age of Christianity that we can look back on and see how all of the bad things are in the past. In fact, there actually was a golden age for Christianity. It was when Rome fell. We call it The Dark Ages.

If you want to lump the Democrats in with the slave owners, understand that the Democrats have at least altered their message, and no longer condone slavery. Good luck getting a Christian to say that homosexuality isn't a sin.

[–] zloubida 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Was there a point in history when humans didn't fuck things up? Cite me one numerically important group, just one, which didn't give shelter to criminals. Christians aren't better (like a lot of them tend to believe) nor worse (like a lot of edgy atheists tend to believe) than other people. They're normal, and hating all of them just because some groups call themselves that and are criminals is just a stupid, paradoxically “holier-than-thou” attitude.

And your last sentence :

Good luck getting a Christian to say that homosexuality isn't a sin

just confirms me what I thought: you don't know a lot of Christians. Like a lot of haters, you hate them just out of lack of culture and education. I know dozens of churches (which all have hundreds of thousand members) which teach that homosexuality isn't a sin.

To be atheist is a reasonable point of view, to wallow in one's ignorance is not. You're not that different from evangelicals.

[–] chemical_cutthroat 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Cite me one numerically important group, just one, which didn’t give shelter to criminals.

This alone is enough to tell me that you haven't actually read what I've been writing, and instead had a preformed idea of what you thought I was talking about, and just twisted my words to fit your belief.

I am not saying that large groups of humans don't have a tendency to fuck things up. We do. I'm saying that in general, most groups don't write hate into their bylaws. Christianity doesn't condemn the bible, yet the bible is a hateful document. Instead, they hold the bible up as their highest scripture and follow it to the letter, as though it were written by god itself. So, when you ask for a large group that doesn't shelter criminals, you think you are clever and have trapped me in my own logic, but in reality, you should be asking for large groups that don't have the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in their hand outs, or what group hasn't marched across a continent while pillaging holy relics and killing Muslims, or what group hasn't gathered those that don't follow them into a trial where they torture the non-believers until they agree to join them. Church. Sanctioned. Hate.

I know dozens of churches (which all have hundreds of thousand members) which teach that homosexuality isn’t a sin.

No you don't. You know dozens of churches that teach that homosexuality isn't a crime. It's still a sin according to the bible, and so it is a sin according to the church. The pope has said so as recently as last year.. I'll give you the quote, since I know a lot of people don't bother with articles.

In the interview the pope said, "We are all children of God, and God loves us as we are and for the strength that each of us fights for our dignity. Being homosexual is not a crime. It is not a crime."

Then, he voiced an objection to that statement, followed by how he would respond to that objection, saying, "'Yes, but it is a sin.' Fine, but first let us distinguish between a sin and a crime."

So, there you go. The church isn't going to call the cops on a gay man, but they will tell them that their soul is eternally damned because of the way they were born. I don't know, still seems kinda hateful, when your whole thing is not going to hell.

Maybe you do know a few fringe churches that are ok with homosexuality and will say that the bible is wrong and that homosexuality isn't a sin. I'm not going to look at every church in the world to try to prove you wrong, so I'll agree with the premise. The problem with these churches is that they are still Christian churches. They are still part of the larger hate group. Are they spending all of their tithe money on lobbying the papal seat to overturn their viewpoint on homosexuality? Are they talking to the heads of protestant denominations to overturn the hate speech that gets spewed at their weekly gatherings? Nah, they were like, "I'll start my own church, with blackjack, and hookers, and a Chip and Dales." And suddenly they are the "cool" church that isn't built on a history and rhetoric of hate. Nope. Sorry. Not buying it.

Edit. OH MY GOD. You're a moderator at c/Christianity. Holy shit. You fucking cunt. You are literally making bad faith arguments in every sense of the word. Goddamnit, thats a great pun.

[–] TrickDacy 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

And yet it will still always be bigoted to care nothing about individuals and only care about negatively grouping large numbers of people together

[–] chemical_cutthroat -1 points 3 days ago (2 children)

When a large group of voluntary members all band together to hate minorites, yeah, I'll wear the bigot badge of honor for hating them. You want to compare lists of things we are both bigots about? Nazis, racists, pedophiles, rapists, cops, religious folk...

[–] FlyingSquid 2 points 3 days ago

Which minorities do the very diverse-looking group of people holding some sort of ceremony on the Church's front page hate? Please present your evidence for this group of people's hatred.

https://sunriseaustin.org/

Because if you want to talk about hating people, you're hating the small number of Christians who are actually doing something good in the world because of all the bad ones. That's not rational.

[–] TrickDacy 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

You'll never get my sympathy with such aggression even if agree with some of your points. I'm not special in that way. Blind Hatred isn't helping

[–] chemical_cutthroat 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

There is nothing blind in my hatred. I grew up blind. I was raised in the church. I had to learn for myself just how fucked up everything was. My aggression is earned. My entire youth was wasted on that shit because I was indoctrinated from birth. I believed. I was saved, I hated black people. I hated gay people. I was led to believe that anyone who wasn't a Christian was less than. All because the pastor and elders of the church said so. Did you know Cain was a white man because Adam and Eve were white, but when he killed Abel and was given the mark of his sin, that mark gave him dark skin? Don't you see, all of the black people are descendants of Cain, the murderer. It's all right there, in black and white. Because the bible tells us so.

I'm not fucking blind. My hatred has 20/20 vision.

[–] TrickDacy 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

So...you believed something awful, which was a fringe belief, and from that you took away not only how to withhold all empathy for people who literally believe exactly what you did, but also, you just aim that same irrational hatred toward people who don't even share the bad belief which you held..

[–] chemical_cutthroat -1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

lmao. Fringe.

No, friend. There is nothing fringe about Christianity. Maybe not all of them believe the exact same lies that I was told, but know that all of them believe some version of it. Maybe it isn't black people, maybe it's homosexuals, maybe it's women, maybe it's literally anything that they aren't. All of them--ALL OF THEM--believe it, though.

I've said it before in this thread, and I'll say it again. Christianity is a group of volunteers. No one is drafted into god's army. No one is forced to be a Christian. When you decide to become a Christian, you assume the mantle of hatred and oppression that has marched unimpeded for thousands of years. There is no "good sect" of Christianity. There are no reformists that are taking the bible and updating it with modern language and tolerances. It's all the same. All of the lies. All of the hatred. When the "progressive" Christians talk about how it's OK to be gay in their denomination, it's because they believe that gay is a choice, and that you can be forgiven of that sin when you simply stop being gay. You know, like you can be forgiven of murder when you stop murdering. To them, it's the same thing. Sure, they'll let gay people get married, they let murderers get married, don't they?

[–] TrickDacy -1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I didn't read this because you cannot be bothered to think that the extremely racist views you chose to hold aren't universal

By your logic, humanity is entirely putrid and unsalvageable and I can conclude that based on literally just your past professed beliefs which you suddenly now claim no responsibility for and instead choose blind, yes 100% blind, hatred as a piss poor excuse for making amends for the awful shit that you "volunteered" for

[–] chemical_cutthroat 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Well, since you aren't reading this, I hope you have a good day and all of your dreams come true.

My views are no longer racist. That was the whole point of my rant. I was raised a christofascist in the purest sense. I had to escape that shit. I have every reason to hate it, because it never bothered to apologize for nearly destroying my life.

And here's the thing about being an ex-Christian, and having to deal with the responsibility of my former actions. I'm not making a twitter apology and moving on with my life to leave the victims of my hate to deal with their broken lives on their own. My life is now dedicated to fixing my past mistakes. I battle against the lies I formerly held true because I want to make amends for all of the damage I caused. When I curse the names of priests, rabbis, and gurus, it's not some misguided hate. It's a fucking fascist seeking missile aimed directly at the people that want to destroy the world, all for the sake of the lies they believe and the power they crave. You really want to be the human shield for a pedophile priest?

[–] TrickDacy -2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I knew a bigot was impossible to converse with and that last line is pure pathetic proof of it.

If this hatred and way of speaking is what you think passes for making amends, you're entirely hopeless. The fact is that you're aiming your hate at people who never believed the awful shit YOU believed. And apparently thinking that your hate helps a single fucking person

[–] chemical_cutthroat 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

They believe the bible. The bible is a book of hate.

Sigh. I don't know why I bother with the Christian apologists on a fucking atheism board.

Adios.

[–] TrickDacy 0 points 3 days ago

Healing the world with hate. What a fucking hero

[–] FlyingSquid 16 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This is Texas. The government will do nothing to help homeless people. I'd rather see a church do something about it than no one. You may feel differently, but I would prefer it if people didn't needlessly suffer when someone is willing to help them even if that someone does not agree with my worldview.

It's not like I have to go to their church.

[–] Mirshe 2 points 3 days ago

This is kinda where I'm at. I don't like unhoused people having to rely on religious charities, BUT I won't turn help away just because it's not from the "right people."

[–] ladicius 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

So normal, all year round violence?

[–] chemical_cutthroat 3 points 4 days ago

It could be more normal.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Holy shit the fascists are even trying to bite the monster of a church

[–] WhatAmLemmy 56 points 4 days ago

Christians who actually live by "what would jesus do" are an extreme minority.

Every single week tens of millions of Christians drive straight past the needy to go to some multimillion dollar mega church and donate to greedy con artists. Most of them will support fascism unconditionally.

[–] Sgt_choke_n_stroke 2 points 3 days ago

It's kinda what they do. Divide and conquer

[–] FlyingSquid 20 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Just like Jesus would have done.

[–] Veneroso 3 points 3 days ago

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ2L-R8NgrA

[–] PriorityMotif 17 points 4 days ago (2 children)

It looks like a hippie church and the homeless assistance part doesn't mention anything about religion on their website.

https://sunrisenavigationcenter.org/

https://sunriseaustin.org

[–] troglodytis 14 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Sure it does. In the "Who Are We" page

We originate from the Christian faith and believe that our community is best served when diversity and inclusion are embedded in everything we do.

[–] PriorityMotif 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Dang, you really have to dig to find that small blurb, but also:

and actively work towards dismantling the systems that perpetuate inequity in our community.

[–] RizzRustbolt 4 points 3 days ago

Jesus was a tankie.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

true Christians: "DEPORT THOSE TERRORISTS"

[–] [email protected] -4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

And?

[–] PriorityMotif 20 points 4 days ago

Do whatever you want with that information, I'm not your mother.

[–] K1nsey6 7 points 3 days ago

Fuck Paxton, he and the entire Texas legislature is garbage.

[–] llamatron 6 points 4 days ago

What a jerk

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago

wow, this is a first for me