this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2024
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[–] Vendul 6 points 3 hours ago (5 children)

It’s kinda good but it completely destroyed the European manufacturing for solar

[–] [email protected] 1 points 16 minutes ago

When panels were 30c/watt, projects at $1/watt in EU and US happened. 70c/watt was spent on labour, copper, support structures, and grid connection equipment. All of those can be locally produced, with possible exception of last item.

At 6c/watt, that is over 90% of power projects are local economy boosting instead of 70%. It provides cheaper energy that is useful for industrialization and cost of living benefits too. US tariffs on solar are entirely about protecting oil/gas extortion power instead of a $10B solar production industry that needs fairly expensive support.

Solar imports does not cause energy dependence. You have power for 30+ years with no reliance on continuous fuel supplies. Shoes and apparel is a $450B industry in US. You need new supplies every year, and it makes much more sense to secure supply in that industry for war on the world purposes.

[–] IndustryStandard 3 points 1 hour ago

By providing big subsidies to green energy developement. Something the EU could also have done but refused to. And so they lost their entire lead.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

It is good, period.

Local manufacturing is politically advantageous and may employ some people at the same time, but that's where benefits end.

Europe didn't reject Chinese face masks during COVID-19, and Europe shouldn't reject Chinese solar during a climate emergency.

Solve that first, and political struggles later.

[–] nexusband 1 points 56 minutes ago* (last edited 55 minutes ago) (1 children)

It's not only a political struggle. Working conditions are tremendously better in Europe, Environmental Protection as well. Manufacturing photovoltaics takes a huge pile of chemicals that need to be handled properly to not cause any harm to the environment - China neither cares nor has any other incentives to actually do this properly, which is exactly why they are so cheap. Theres also the issue of poor quality, that if you're manufacturing something that can have a significant impact on the environment, it should "count" and not be waste 10 years later.

Not only that, China's subsidies are utterly unfair.

Destroying the environment in one part of the world to "save" a different one due to climate change is just ridiculously stupid and simple minded.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 13 minutes ago

Manufacturing photovoltaics takes a huge pile of chemicals that need to be handled properly to not cause any harm to the environment

Source for this? Cadmium is exclusive to 1 US manufacturer.

[–] SkunkWorkz 6 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Yep the EU will be beholden to a dictatorial regime again. Instead of placating Putin for gas it will be Xi for solar panels and batteries.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 5 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

At least those items you only need to buy once.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 58 minutes ago (1 children)

What? Have you ever had a battery powered device for longer than 2 years?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 15 minutes ago

All of them, plus storage batteries are under much less abuse and are different chemistry that lasts a lot longer.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 hours ago

Theyre $1.25 per watt in south America right now (we have an energy crisis due to climate change caused drought)

[–] Shardikprime 18 points 13 hours ago

Solar has always an extremely high ratio for megawatt per mass unit.

This price is really good

[–] [email protected] 83 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (4 children)

Here in Belgium there used to be big government subsidies for solar panels 5-10 ago.

Now the same wattage battery + solar setup without any government subsidies is a good chunk cheaper than that time with the large subsidies.

Pretty cool and shows the power of government renewables subsidies. A huge percentage of houses in Belgium have solar panels now.(and electricity still costs 0.30€/kWh average because of fossil fuel energy lobbies)

Now that there is a local industry around it, most renovations and almost all new builds include them.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 1 points 1 hour ago

electricity still costs 0.30€/kWh average because of fossil fuel energy lobbies.

This is the price of guaranteed electricity delivered to your doorstep. We can't get rid of gas fired power stations and kms of electricity grid network yet.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

As your northern neighbors. We did subsidize it too, but now the privatized energy companies started whining that there wasn't enough capacity, so now they charge you for creating free energy

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Yes I'm considering buying a high power laser so I can send the energy back into space instead of paying the power companies for the privilege of giving them electricity.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 hours ago

Great idea! Some inspiration right here :

https://what-if.xkcd.com/13/

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

I'm fairly sure that all newly built houses in the UK require solar by law.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 hours ago

All the new houses around here with no solar would indicate that is not true. They're not even required to have a south facing roof.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 minutes ago

It is very poorly implemented. "Builder grade" solar panels in a "smallest compliant" configuration with no concern for architecture to benefit from solar takes place. Builders are intentionally putting the shittiest solar to reduce value of the homes they build so that they can complain about the policy.

[–] sirboozebum 18 points 15 hours ago

4 million households in Australia have solar panels.

They are great value.

[–] Valmond 18 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

Just have to buy 1100 panels 😋 but then the price is 0.055€/watt ...

I Want one, but only one or a couple, to put on my balcony...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

Thousands of people buying rooftop panels was never going to be the best way towards a Water/Wind/Solar (WWS) future. Fitting panels to the roof has to work around the roof geometry and obstructions like vents. That makes every job a custom job. It also means thousands of small inverters rather than a few big ones.

Compare that to setting up thousands of panels on racks in a field. As long as it's relatively open and flat, you just slap those babies down. You haul in a few big inverters which are often built right into shipping containers that can just be placed on site, hooked up, and left there. Batteries need inverters, too, so if your project includes some storage, then you only need one set of inverters.

I get the feeling of independence from the system that solar panels on the roof gives people, but it's just not economically the best way to go. The insanely cheap dollars per MWh of solar is only seen when deploying them on a mass scale. That means roofs of commercial/industrial buildings or bigger.

[–] ikidd 14 points 15 hours ago (5 children)

These are topcon modules only. Considering a 400W panel will have about 72 modules in it, that's only about 15 panels worth. Of course, then you have to actually build the panel and connect the modules, put it behind glass inside a frame, then put in a bypass diode and leads for connection. So an actual panel ends up being about 5-10X the cost of the modules per W.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 18 hours ago (40 children)

$60k per MW or $210M for a nuclear reactors worth (3.5GW). Sure... the reactor will go 24/7 (between maintenance and refuelling down times, and will use less land (1.75km² Vs ~40km²) but at 1% of the cost, why are we still talking about nuclear.

(I'm using the UKs Hinckley Point C power station as reference)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

but at 1% of the cost, why are we still talking about nuclear

Sure... the reactor will go 24/7 (between maintenance and refuelling down times, and will use less land

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 hour ago

The land thing isn't anywhere near enough of a concern for me, especially when dual uses of land are quite feasible.

24/7 is just about over commissioning and having storage. Build 10x as much and store what you generate. At those sorts of levels even an overcast day generates.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In 2 points 1 hour ago

Using the remaining 99% of the cost to bury batteries underground would seem reasonable.

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