this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024

595 points (97.8% liked)

News

23273 readers

5525 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil

Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.

2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.

Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.

3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.

Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.

4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.

Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.

5. Only recent news is allowed.

Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.

6. All posts must be news articles.

No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.

7. No duplicate posts.

If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.

8. Misinformation is prohibited.

Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.

9. No link shorteners.

The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.

10. Don't copy entire article in your post body

For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

595

Sanders: Democratic Party ‘has abandoned working class people’ (thehill.com)

submitted 9 hours ago by MicroWave to c/news

97 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Summary

Bernie Sanders criticizes the Democratic Party for neglecting the working class, leading to their recent election losses.

He highlights issues like economic inequality, job displacement, healthcare costs, and foreign policy as key concerns for the American people.

Sanders questions whether the Democratic leadership will address these issues or remain beholden to big money interests.

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] Aermis 27 points 2 hours ago

Hi. Working tradesman. I still voted blue even when the 4 years under trump were mostly better for me than under Biden. Of course most likely coasting off of Obama's era. But I got no relief under Biden. I pay $20k a year for my Healthcare and still have to pay thousands a year out of pocket for visits. My family in Ukraine is still unsure what's going to happen in the next year. Many of brothers in my local are unemployed now during the hardest time to pay to live. We hear the record profits the corporations made and swindled the working class dry so we can eat yet there has been no relief. How did making 6 figures for a family of 5 turn into almost living pay check to pay check.

I'm ok with sacrifice if it means others get the help they need. But I don't think anyone got the help they needed. We sacrificed for no benifit to anyone but the elite, and we are continuing to be ignored.

This is what Sanders is talking about. And I'm afraid of what Trump is going to do for many Americans. For my Ukrainian family back home. For my neighbor who is Taiwanese. But recently I'm more worried to keep food on the table for my kids. I don't even care who won anymore. I have election and political fatigue. I did what was asked. I keep doing what everyone thinks is right. But I'm burning out.

[–] robocall 2 points 52 minutes ago

The DNC needs to allow voters to elect who they actually want during the primary. We were force fed Hillary because the DNC didn't want Bernie. We didn't even have a primary because we were force fed Biden, then given Harris because Biden was so unelectable. The DNC must allow democratic process to take place so that voters elect the presidential candidate that they want.

[–] rsuri 5 points 2 hours ago

I hate to defend a major party, but it does feel like people expect Democrats to fix all the nation's problems when they have utterly no power to do so.

The reality is most Americans are not with Bernie on the things he's talking about. The average American has been heavily propagandized by the corporate media (not just news media, all of it) to love corporate stuff. Capitalism good, socialism bad, cheap gas good, electric stoves bad. Go to most Americans in the rust belt, that's how they think.

If Democrats are supposed to skip to the part where they implement policies that no one currently supports outside of liberal intellectual circles with all the power they supposedly have, that's skipping to the end. What's Bernie's solution for getting people outside of Vermont on his side to begin with?

[–] Astronauticaldb 15 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Yesterday and today feel like I'm reliving my mom's election loss back in 2016. I was too young then to understand the weight behind what was going on at the time, although I did at least understand why Trump seemed like a dumb candidate. Anyways, I distinctly remember how when it was obvious that Hillary lost, even though she won the popular vote, that something wasn't right. My mom was sobbing while looking for places to move into, since we were moving out anyways. Now, 8 years later, I'm having those exact same feelings as she did except with my boyfriend on my side, knowing very well that come January that if nothing happens, we could very well be one of his first targeted groups. I fucking hate this timeline, man.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

I was in college and living with a bisexual Saudi friend at the time. I'm a straight white man, so I wasn't a target, but he absolutely was. I sat with him in the kitchen while we got drunk and he cried.

The good news is he made it through fine and I think is doing well today still in the US. It's going to suck, but most of us are probably going to survive this. Don't give up all hope. Build your community, organize, join mutual aid groups, and build what we need to take back power in the future.

They're going to try to take us backward, but make them take us kicking and screaming. Don't give up and let them have it for free.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

If he formed a new party with young, fresh faces, I'd vote for them regardless of how that affected whatever the DNC did. I feel like there's enough similar sentiment that he could force change in the DNC

[–] venusaur 6 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Finally. Everybody on Lemmy has been sucking donkey dick so hard. They’re not gonna save you. Need to start looking elsewhere or force their hand. RCV will help do that.

[–] qevlarr 2 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

It's the reality of first past the post. Third party voting is simply almost never an option. You're mad at a natural law of the election system. Don't hate the players, hate the game

[–] [email protected] 1 points 19 minutes ago* (last edited 18 minutes ago)

evidently, as this election proved, it's not like voting on the lesser of two evils worked either. better to vote for a third party who actually stands on the side of the people.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

If I hate the game, and the players are the ones with the power to change the rules of the game and choose not to, where does that leave me?

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 hour ago

That could force a change in the DNC, but the change would be to push them further to the right. The issue is that the right-wing party won the election. They got more than 50% of the total votes. So the democrats aren't going to see splitting their own base as a viable pathway to victory. If a left-wing faction splitters off, then the DNC will be forced to try to capture more votes on the other side instead.

If the democrats won the election then we'd be in a situation where we can talk about pushing them further left. But when they lose, that's not really an option. (Most of these strategy problems disappear with ranked choice voting... but I doubt the current government has any interest in pushing for that kind of change!)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

But the DNC has to shut down, because then it will just be a 50/25/25 split and that won’t work either.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

I really don't think that's true anymore. Maybe looking at decades of political party data but I think the games kinda changed with MAGA taking repubs extreme and Dem's going center-right. There are a lot of republicans who could find a home in the democratic party since we know 2028 will see a cult leader retiring and you know the Dem's are gonna run an old white guy out of fear. I'm hoping another party can cause a splash that election cycle but I see it going blue and hopefully the infrastructure for this third-party progressive moment can become solid in local with sites on national.

I'm no longer holding out for election change. Oregon just voted against RCV, the push-back from changing the voting system is just too much for our set-in-stone political machine we have running now. I'm definitely gonna look into the data about why that went down though, a lot of opposition from Dems and Repubs in Alaska and Maine so would be interesting to see what coalesced.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

the Dem's are gonna run an old white guy out of fear.

Hey that's not fair, maybe they'll tap Hillary to turn this around /s (I hope)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

Don’t give them ideas!

[–] untorquer 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

There either won't be a 2028 election or it will be a sham. They have control of the entire government. The constitution will change. The courts will be harder right. The ONLY things holding them back will be a senator or two philibustering (until it's outlawed) and the senses of high military command.

Also since trump will have ultimate immunity in office he can simply ignore the constitution altogether without consequence. He won't have to step down. As admitted he'll be a dictator.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (2 children)

I don't know what's going to happen, but focusing on what you're saying this early is only going to cause you panic when we need to be gathering our strength. We've seen from the MAGA movement that our democracy is fragile. The safeguards and protections that make everything "so difficult"^tm^ to change these past decades aren't necessarily that difficult after all.

I can see a few well established Dem's like Bernie and AOC jumping aboard a progressive party movement disguised as a blue wave much like was overtaken on the right. We see that there is room to capture voters that didn't turn out and from both parties, a small band CAN take over a movement if their dedicated enough.

It's just unfortunate that it was someone on the right who first abandoned party-lined politics and showed you can tame a party while speaking to the base (again, it was only like 20% of the population). It really makes me think that Bernie should've handled the fiasco in Nevada and South Carolina differently during the 2016 primaries. No blame to him, and I'm not sure what lesson there is to be learned besides authoritarianism and narcissistic tendencies are a way to brute force yourself into politics. But, I would've loved to see Bernie politely take the gloves off and took it to the people to back him up as well like Trump did with his group (just not, you know, all murdery and dark).

[–] untorquer 1 points 1 hour ago

Oh yeah the way they did bernie dirty destroyed enthusiasm and that echos even today. The dems showed they don't care for a populist movement.

Im not saying give up. Just be real and listen to what trump and the right is saying. They don't shroud their intent anymore. They say it up front. Dictator day one.

We won't see a restoring change come from a political party. Whether the goal is pushing the current political structures left or superceding them it must come from popular mobilization.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

What is strength gonna do if he literally does succeed in being a “dictator on day one” there is only one way to stop a fascist.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

50/25/25, huh? So that must account for Republican/Democrat/Left of Democrat -Where do you think the Libertarians stand in all of this? Do you think the Democrats lost this election because of third parties or was it because a significant chunk of former Democrat voters chose to stay home altogether? If former Democrat voters chose to stay home, then I ask you why?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 hour ago

Well, it’s because democrats are dumb and didn’t show up. Either way it would have been closer than last time.

[–] blazera 39 points 5 hours ago (6 children)

Nah i dont think yall are willing to do it. 2028 you'll be holding your nose again voting for an out of touch moderate to oppose trumps third term instead of giving a progressive you completely agree with any kind of chance.

load more comments (6 replies)

[–] foggy 52 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

God fucking dammit he should have been the fucking president in 2016. Fuck this timeline.

[–] BigBenis 16 points 4 hours ago

Gore should have been the president in 2000

[–] ytsedude 90 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (2 children)

The only focused Democratic message for the past 8+ years has been, "We need to stop Trump," which I agree with, but without Trump, I can't think of a single, unified message. That's not enough to get the general population fired up and excited to vote for Dems. One thing that made Obama so popular was he had specific goals and gave people hope.

Trump, in the meantime, has been feeding people all sorts of promises and hopes and dreams. They're all terrible and full of shit, but that is a more powerful message than just, "We need to stop Harris."

[–] Mog_fanatic 20 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

I'm also legitimately convinced that the average American person is just an asshole and likes other assholes. Trump is the most conceited, whiney, cry baby, know it all, jagoff and everybody knows it. He wears it like a medal. And people love it man. They just eat it up.

It's just like Carlin said. The politicians come from us. Because they are us.

[–] aesthelete 4 points 1 hour ago

Trump is the most conceited, whiney, cry baby, know it all, jagoff and everybody knows it. He wears it like a medal. And people love it man. They just eat it up.

That's the thing. I'm sick of the media painting this as a "they're holding their noses and voting" thing. This dude doesn't win despite his vulger rallies and his racist, sexist, homophobic, crazy, whiney, criminal, and arrogant behavior... He wins because of that shit.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

I don't know, I try to be a little more optimistic. over 250million eligible voters, only 70million voted for Trump. That's less than a 1/3 and could be lower if you included the entire population. People will spend extra time to pursue things that will benefit them directly, there just needs to be better communication about the good things that will benefit them for their time, not the things to be fearful of because people will tune that out (as shown by the voter turnout).

[–] ytsedude 2 points 3 hours ago

Truth!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (3 children)

You know what does excite the dems though? And also the republicans?

Actual progressive policies…..

As close as this election was, if Bernie betrayed the Democratic Party and ran as an independent in 2016, do you think he would have won

I do

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] [email protected] 70 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

“Will the big money interests and well-paid consultants who control the Democratic Party learn any real lessons from this disastrous campaign? Will they understand the pain and political alienation that tens of millions of Americans are experiencing? Do they have any ideas as to how we can take on the increasingly powerful Oligarchy, which has so much economic power?” Sanders asked.

”Probably not”

Bernie has been the Cassandra of the Democratic Party for decades. They need to realize that it has gone too far. The insane wealth gap, which has surpassed pre-Revolution France at this point, combined with the unaffordability of everything has created a crisis that won’t be fixed by platitudes and vague promises.

People are desperate, afraid, and angry. Changing that to hope and enthusiasm requires real plans that average voters can understand and even more than that requires correctly showing people the source of the problem.

Being beholden to billionaires is the real problem. And all their money, advertising, polling, and other bullshit didn’t do a damn thing to help Harris. Take them on the way FDR did or give the country to republicans permanently.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 hours ago

The insane wealth gap, which has surpassed pre-Revolution France

Let that sink in

[–] [email protected] 183 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

He's 100% correct. This failure is a failure of the DNC to actually pay attention to what the voters want.

[–] seaQueue 77 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

This election, like every failed election effort since 2000, was a referendum on the democratic party platform: neoliberal business as usual for the top 15% sprinkled with "we're not Republicans"

[–] [email protected] 24 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

“we’re not Republicans”

Trust us, we are different. Oh how specifically are we different? What a great question, is it not the best part of this nation to be able to ask such things. Anyway, as I was saying....

[–] TrickDacy 24 points 6 hours ago

I hate how accurate this shit is

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 hours ago

I hope Kamala is having tea and eggs Benedict with dick Cheney tomorrow morning

load more comments