this post was submitted on 12 Sep 2024
543 points (98.2% liked)

politics

19141 readers
3294 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 248 points 2 months ago (23 children)

Gosh, imagine that... the party that wants to turn women into forced breeders isn't popular with the people they want to turn into forced breeders.

The actually surprising shift is that Gen Z men are more conservative and less likely to identify as supporting feminists than Millenials.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Maybe edginess? I feel like the majority of the male youth has to rebell against what their parents did and so it flip flops back and forth.

[–] Fern 55 points 2 months ago (3 children)

That and the crisis of masculinity in a machismo culture which is being actively used against them by idiots everywhere.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 2 months ago

Hasan Piker has a great tweet about this

[–] TommySoda 38 points 2 months ago (1 children)

There's nothing more manly than being respectful towards women. Just ask women.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Being respectful to people regardless of gender?

[–] TommySoda 29 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 months ago

Admitting you're wrong is also pretty manly. Good shit brother.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 months ago

Yea - I think folks like Jordan Peterson (apologies from Canada) and Tate managed to own a lot of headspace in Gen Z when they were teens and in college and we're only just seeing the fallout of those deeply toxic influences.

[–] GladiusB 3 points 2 months ago

I do not think it's exclusive to males. Maybe it's more common in men, but I have definitely seen women do it as well.

[–] b3an 23 points 2 months ago

When you use Andrew Tate as a role model in not surprised.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I don’t find that hard to believe at all, young men are not fans of feminism and it’s affecting their judgment of leftist economic policies.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago (6 children)

And propagandists are exploiting that as well. They feel all their issues with the changes in dating and relationships in general are the fault of "the left" and women in general, there are no shortage of people waiting to jump on those points for their own financial and political gain.

load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Kayday 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The problem in marketing feminism to young men is it many of them have not personally experienced, or at least understood, how being a man gives them advantages in society as opposed to women. Young men also have a difficult time understanding how easily they can be viewed as toxic, creepy, or even dangerous without self control and respect for others.
I wish I had an answer, most of the young men in my life are more right leaning and think "feminazi" is a legitimate wat to describe left leaning people.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Most men have experienced the stifling gender norms that force them into a box: they're not allowed to cry or show any feeling other than anger, there's no such thing as non-sexual touch or romance, women don't like sex so trying to get close to them is inherently rapey and goes against their desires.

Feminism fights against that trap, that men are only men if they check certain boxes. That's what's toxic: telling men they're not allowed to be certain ways.

So yeah, feminism does have a lot to offer men. Toxic societal expectations are bad for everyone.

[–] CoggyMcFee 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Totally agree. Even back in the 70s, the wonderful feminist movie/record Free To Be You and Me (with songs like “It’s All Right to Cry” sung by an NFL player) was at least as much about men not being defined a certain way as it was about women.

I think one hurdle for men right off the bat is the fact that it’s called “feminism”. That makes it clear that it has something to offer women, but doesn’t make it obvious that it has something to offer men too, so they don’t give it an open mind.

(I’m not actually saying that I think the name should change, and in fact the movement could potentially drift away from its core mission over time if the name didn’t have women as the focus. Just saying it’s a hurdle.)

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] aesthelete 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The actually surprising shift is that Gen Z men are more conservative and less likely to identify as supporting feminists than Millenials.

I don't know how common it is, but I saw a specific instance on social media (I want to say instagram?) where the comments on something were ordered and displayed (some hidden) completely differently based upon the user's gender. Just based upon that single profile attribute the entire comments sections looked completely different.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago

Because of social media and assholes like andrew tate and stephen crowder.

They’re gonna be stunned when they realize those fucknuts did not tell them how to actually get a girlfriend.

[–] Maggoty 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

I think those stories were a little overblown. They're less likely to be feminists but that doesn't mean they're more conservative. The IPSOS study is full of loaded questions and nothing to actually nail down what men think of women's rights. Just feel stuff like, "are you a feminist? Has women's rights gone too far in your country? Are men asked to do too much?"

What they needed to ask was actual policy questions, "should women receive the same pay as men? Should women be able to hold office and work jobs? Are there jobs that should be off limits to women?"

I'm willing to bet you'll find more gen Z answering yes yes no, while also believing the feminist movement has gone too far.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

"Feminism" is like philosophy in that over time it makes certain wins, and the discussion around that topic gradually sheds the label.

In the same way that ancient philosophers were establishing the disciplines we now call mathematics, geometry, and physics, or early modern philosophers were establishing what we now call economics and political science, and mid-century/postwar philosophers were establishing what is now called computer science and information theory, the history of feminism is notching wins and making them normal:

  • In Anglo American law, women were able to own their own property beginning in the early 19th century, starting in the American South (somewhat ironically driven by southern concerns about preserving the institution of slavery).
  • Women were allowed to be considered for credit and banking services, equal to men, beginning in the 1970's.
  • Women earned the legal right to equal pay for equal work in the 70's, even as cultural attitudes in many circles still considered that to be government overreach (even today).
  • Marital rape and other forms of domestic violence were outlawed pretty recently. The last state to criminalize marital rape did so in 1993, the same year that Jurassic Park came out in theaters.
  • Liberalized divorce rules throughout the 80's allowed women to leave abusive husbands more easily.
  • Most gender segregation in official government institutions were dismantled in the 1980's and the 1990's, including the abolition of male-only universities, and laws imposing different legal drinking ages between men and women.

Today, many of us who were alive when these rules were in effect think of them as totally backwards. Nobody is seriously advocating for a return to denying women the right to have their own bank accounts, or giving husbands the right to rape their wives without consequences.

But the cultural understanding of the meaning of feminism rarely considers preserving past wins, even recent wins. People only think of it as fighting for something in the future.

[–] calcopiritus 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

That's because it's not the same feminist movement as it was when millennials were gen z's age.

The last questions are what feminism used to be (what millennials liked). Nowadays, however, feminism is plagued by not-feminist people, that instead of wanting equality want women superiority. That's the feminism gen z knows about, and the men don't like it. That's also the reason they answer "no" to "are you a feminist?" But they support actual feminist policies. The definition of feminism has changed.

EDIT: just for reference: my county (Spain) recently put porn under a passport with limited uses per month. Why did they do that? They claim feminism. Does that sound like feminism to you?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I think people are so easily swayed by what they’re told about themselves that very often when the women are told that they’re more liberal, they adopt it to be good group members, and when the men are told that they’re more conservative, they adopt it to be good group members.

Edit: Which is not intended to counter what you said about forced breeders, which is absolutely true.

load more comments (15 replies)
[–] [email protected] 41 points 2 months ago

Alt headline: Republican party worse than it has ever been thanks to fundamentalist dingbats and narcissistic sociopaths

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago (2 children)

We have enough librul women…We need more leftist ladies.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

This article actually describes women supporting leftism. It's just that the USA only supports right-wing ideologies like liberalism. The MSM can't even admit or understand that leftism is a thing.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Well yeah. I want my fucking abortion rights back.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Yet Congress is basically a tie...

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago

Because not enough people vote during midterms. You can't have a progressive congress by not voting in midterms.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I know Republicans have taken away a Women's Right to Healthcare while Empowering Men's Right to Rape and now want to take away a Women's Right to Divorce but this is FAKE NEWS! REAL WOMEN are Republican and REAL WOMEN Vote for the Party who want to allow Fathers to Rape their Daughters!

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Donjuanme 19 points 2 months ago

They've moved the goal posts farther than they've ever been before, then accused the disenfranchised next generation of being radical.

[–] Sylvartas 10 points 2 months ago

Obviously this is because of Marxist professors or whatever it was Elon said and not at all because conservatives seemingly saw the handmaid's tale and decided that it was an instructions manual

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

I mean sure because conservative women are supposed to be either stuck in the kitchen and nursing children, a husband's sex slave or a mouthpiece advocating for the first two.

Social conservative positions have just gone off the rocker and left most women behind, being mocked, insulted and threatened. Examples are the childless cat lady comment and recently Musk's abhorrent outburst re: Ms. Swift.

[–] TheDeadHorse 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

One party selected a rapist as a presidential candidate and has repealed healthcare rights. I don't think it puzzling why they aren't popular amongst women.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›