this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2024
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THE POLICE PROBLEM

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    The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.

    99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.

    When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.

    When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."

    When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.

    Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.

    The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.

    All this is a path to a police state.

    In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.

    Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.

    That's the solution.

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[Followup] Deputy charged with murdering Black woman allegedly told partner not to give aid (www.independent.co.uk)
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by [email protected] to c/thepoliceproblem
49 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Prosecutors alleged that when Grayson and his partner responded to Massey’s home, Grayson allowed her to move a pot of water heating on the stove, but as she set it on a counter, Grayson then “aggressively yelled” at Massey over the pot and pulled his 9mm pistol.

Massey then asked what the deputies were doing, to which Grayson responded, “Getting away from your hot, steaming water.”

“I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” Massey said twice, according to the documents reviewed by NBC News.

Grayson responded, “I swear to God. I will shoot you right in your f------ face.”

When Grayson drew his service weapon and ordered her to drop the pot, she let go, then crouched below a line of cabinets, and declared “I’m sorry” before being shot in the face, prosecutors said.

Grayson did not render aid to Massey and discouraged his partner from getting his medical kit because he thought her injury was too severe, according to the court document filed in support of keeping Grayson in custody without bond.

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[–] dohpaz42 87 points 5 months ago

Grayson had been with the Sangamon County Sheriff’s Department about 18 months after serving as an officer with several other police agencies in central Illinois for about seven years before that.

Im going to go out on a limb and say that maybe he had a pattern of behavior that caused him to precinct hop that instead should have led to his being banned from being a cop in the first place. So if I were the lawyers for the family, I’d be looking there and adding other policies agencies to the list being sued.

[–] [email protected] 61 points 5 months ago (5 children)

do people become cops because they know they're too fucking stupid to do anything else? or just because it means they get to shoot black people? or because they have a severe inferiority complex?

[–] [email protected] 56 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Applicants can be legally rejected for having too high IQ. Wouldn't want the piggies to become self-aware.

https://aele.org/apa/jordan-newlondon.html

https://www.wirthlawoffice.com/tulsa-attorney-blog/2013/07/court-okd-citys-too-smart-to-be-a-cop-rule

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago

that doesn't surprise me in the slightest

[–] chknbwl 34 points 5 months ago (2 children)

D) All of the above

Pigs are just a fraternity, intellect has zilch to do with any function of their agency. Most are in it because they think it makes them look cool. Others join because it makes them feel powerful and superior to others. Then there are genuine evil people, like the above shitbucket, who wear the badge specifically to hold the firearm.

Even the ones that join to protect their "community" are, more often than not, passively protecting a status quo instead.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 5 months ago (2 children)

this woman called 911 for HELP, and the fucking pussy cop felt threatened because she had a pot of hot water?

the problems run much deeper than the bottom rung chimpanzees they hire for beat cops. this douchenozzle should have never been hired in the first place. by anyone.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago

But then how are the police supposed to hire all these low-functioning racists?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Let's not forget the extra-added bonus of "Badge Bunnies/holster sniffers" if you're into that sort of thing

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago

Yes.

[–] EnderMB 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I had considered joining the police here in the UK. The pay is okay, the pension is fantastic, and it felt like something you'd do to help people. For all the shit police get, when you're in a horrible situation like a family member dying at home, or a violent break-in, having the police there to help pick the pieces up and guide you can be great.

The problem is that the reality of the job is endless paperwork, having hardly any training for the job that you do, having a public that (rightly) hates you, and you're put in positions that you can't really win.

IMO the police shouldn't be defunded. They should get far more funding, in return for FAR more training. Their unions should be responsible for ensuring their members are fully trained and able to act on their training, leaving the role if they can't. Those that can't keep up should be retrained in other fields, like mental health work, the law, or social support.

But to answer your question, I think those that don't join the police see the hypocrisy of joining a force that actively does the opposite of what you want the police to be. Those that do are ignorant to it, or apathetic to its presence (e.g. not all cops).

[–] JustZ 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Defund the police generally means two things, first cut the police budget to essential police functions only, and second build a new agency in its place.

The problem is the entire cat and mouse model of policing. In that model, it's nobody's job to address the causes of crime. That's where we should be spending money, not chasing people that already did a crime.

E: I don't fully believe that all police agencies in America traced their lineage to slave patrols, as some modern thinkers say, but when they say that what they mean is that the cat and mouse model of policing in America arose from slave patrols. Defund police means to abandon catch and capture policing in favor of a model of prevention and protectection.

Obviously, essential police functions sometimes include sending armed men to capture dangerous bad guys. That function of policing will never go away.

[–] morphballganon 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I considered becoming a cop before ACAB was a popular slogan, and my reasons for considering it were: 1. Good pay 2. Good benefits 3. Less likely for people to pick a fight with you 4. Complimentary access to a good gym

My motivations had nothing to do with starting fights, escalating fights, discriminating, intimidating regular people etc. Maybe that's why I didn't go for it.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (2 children)

ACAB dates back to the 1920’s and has been a popular slogan since then. The trope of cops being dumb, corrupt, and sadistic dates back to at least the 13th century (Sheriff of Nottingham, etc).

There’s no way anyone goes into law enforcement and is surprised by what cops are unless they come from a police family and are brainwashed from a young age. I just don’t buy it.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Eh, I didn't really understand ACAB until I was in my early 20s, and I don't think I was any more brainwashed than the average UK child.

I can see an alternate world where someone like me, who had a strong sense of justice, might have wanted to join the police because of believing that the police can or should be a force for good.

Even though I was pretty solidly leftist in university, I still held the view of "oh come on, all cops are bastards? That seems extreme" and I thought that ACAB was mostly a cathartic but needlessly inflammatory slogan. It wasn't until I actively sought out opinions and writing from people who earnestly believed ACAB that I actually understood that it's not a comment on individual cops, but on the system itself which basically precludes the existence of non-bastardy cops

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

Fair enough. I’m glad that you made the right decision!

[–] morphballganon 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It has become much more popular in the last 10 years than it was before that (perhaps in my region, if not everywhere). Also, as a kid I saw the Sheriff of Nottingham as an individual, not a stereotype. My family isn't a "police family" but we're also not a "constant run-ins with the police" family either.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 5 months ago

Piece of garbage.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 5 months ago

This was a fucking execution.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 5 months ago

This isn't in the summary above, bit the article says Massey called the police about a prowler, that's why they were there.

Then they showed up and shot her.

Both cops made so many mistakes here. Obviously Grayson just shouldn't be a cop nor own a weapon, but it's also clear that these 2 haven't had any training.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 months ago (2 children)

All cops are stupid reactionary cowards who have a superiority complex exacerbated by the fact that they are just cognizant enough to know that they are stupider than people around them.

[–] madcaesar 20 points 5 months ago

I hate that Hollywood propaganda has build cops up as heroes. They are bullies or cowards all of them.

The guys partner if he was a true hero wouid have immediately tased this animal and arrested him.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

All cops are stupid reactionary cowards who have a superiority complex exacerbated by the fact that they are just cognizant enough to know that they are stupider than people around them.

I feel like we could shorten that to way less words... maybe an abbreviation that people would recognize. ;)

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

“I swear to God. I will shoot you right in your f------ face.”

What is it with these sort of cops talking like this. It’s one thing if it was an actual perp who might have a weapon and moving for one, wild shit may come out your mouth but at someone’s house while they have a kettle? The actual fuck. Like isn’t it a literal line out of super troopers??

Also, the hell are cops with skull tattoos on their forearm doing wearing a uniform. Get some admission standards or just any standards for your police force already god damn.

[–] Glifted 5 points 5 months ago

This is all of them. This is who they are now.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Because people with skull tattoos are obviously bad guys. There are documentaries about that. Or was it bad action movies? Ahhh same thing apparently

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

That’s pretty obviously, not what I mean. I have tattoos so I understand their meaning can span beyond basic symbolism. That said cops here can’t have certain tattoos or tattoos above their collar. I would imagine that having a pile of skulls tattooed on your forearm may (or at least should) detract from your chances at a job that’s public service based. Shit there are jobs that don’t trust you with a gun that you’d probably not get.

[–] laserm 13 points 5 months ago

What the fuck is wrong with some people?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (3 children)

The article says they are releasing the body cam video today, so that should be pretty condeming if this story is accurate.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

They've charged him with murder (as is also in this very headline), so it would be a little surprising if the cam showed anything else.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sonya-massey-death-illinois-deputy-173536807.html

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The article says they are releasing the body cam video today, so that should be pretty condeming if this story is accurate.

Sure is.

https://apnews.com/article/illinois-police-shooting-911-murder-7a1b433183933ca94f266c0f90753a33

The video from body cameras shows a tense moment in which former Sangamon County Sheriff’s Deputy Sean Grayson yelled at 36-year-old Sonya Massey to set down a pot from the stove just seconds after she started pouring the water into the sink and the two giggled over her “hot steaming water.” He then threatens to shoot her, Massey ducks then briefly rises and Grayson fires his pistol at her three times.

Grayson tells her to give him her ID. Then he points to the kitchen for the other deputy to check on the stove. “We don’t need a fire while we’re here.”

Massey goes to the kitchen and after she and Grayson share a laugh, she says, “I rebuke you in the name of Jesus,” and asks him a question.

“You better (expletive) not or I swear to God I’ll (expletive) shoot you in your (expletive) face.” He then pulls his 9mm pistol and says “Drop the (expletive) pot.”

Massey says, “OK, I’m sorry.” In Grayson’s bodycam footage, he pulls the gun and when she ducks, she raises her hands and it looks like she has the red pan in her hands. But Grayson is still in the living room, facing Massey, behind a counter dividing the living room and kitchen, 10 or 15 feet away.

The other deputy, who is not named, said “I’m gonna go get my kit.”

Grayson said, “No, it’s a headshot. She done. You can go get it, but that’s a headshot ... there’s nothing you can do, man.”

He added: “What else do we do? I’m not taking hot (expletive) boiling water to the (expletive) face”

Noting that Massey was still breathing despite losing a lot of blood, he relented and said he would get his kit too. The other deputy responded, “We can at least try to stop the bleeding.”

Speaking to responding police, Grayson told them “she had boiling water and came at me, with boiling water. ... She said she was going to rebuke me in the name of Jesus and came at with boiling water.”

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

that should be pretty condeming if this story is accurate.

Ah - yep.

[–] p5yk0t1km1r4ge 5 points 5 months ago

Lmao this is so fucking pathetic and unsurprising.