The debate was a shit show.
Both candidates belong in a nursing home and no where near public life. One looks like they're hardly awake the other can't form a sentence that makes any sense.
"May you live in interesting times" eh?
this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2024
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finger curls on monkey’s paw
The debate made me really afraid for my parents. They're not much younger than either and now I'm thinking they'll need a lot more help a lot sooner than I realize.
Hug you parents. Show them that you love them. Nothing is so important that you should forget how much they have meant to your life. My mom died suddenly this week, and far too young. The time is never long enough...
Really sorry to hear about your mom. I'm older, and both my parents are dead. You'd think that, since it's the norm than your parents die before their kids, we'd be more emotionally prepared for our parents dying, but I found it pretty tough in both cases. The second one is particularly bad. Hang in there and focus on the good memories.
Thank you man, I really appreciate your reply.
at least something positive came out of yesterday's debate, you just realized you have to step up for your family. good luck, friend.
It's not "tough", it's impossible. The only person who can decide that the sitting President is not the candidate is that President themselves.
Yes, but it's not impossible that the people around Biden, friends family and co-workers, advise him that the best thing for the country would be to take his hat back out of the ring and let a better ticket be put together for the convention.
He claims that he's running because he's worried about the existential threat of Trump.
If that's true, then maybe his hubris can be overcome with a convincing appeal that he's really not the best candidate to defend the country against that existential threat after all.
I would love for Obama to take him aside and go "Joe... it's time..." but I don't know if that will happen. There needs to be an intervention. ;)
He did in the past: https://www.gq.com/story/obama-to-biden-dont-run
The problem is that biden dug himself in too deep with the help of the democratic party. Now extricating him would leave a gaping hole during a critical time in the election cycle. It's been a disaster long in the making, but biden and the democratic party were too stubborn to let things go any other way and now we're stuck.
the democratic party were too stubborn to let things go any other way and now we’re stuck.
Would that they were this stubborn in 2000...
Technically it's the head of the DNC.
Now, once a Dem president wins an election, they nominate that position, and a bunch of other DNC voting seats. And the DNC historically goes along with that. So it is very very unlikely for the DNC to then turn against an incumbent 4 years later.
But it is technically possible for an incumbent to be booted forcibly from their party's ticket.
There really is no process for it though, it's not like parliamentary rules where you can call for a vote of no confidence, although how fucked would Biden be right now if that were the case?
Can we talk about how Trump was a shit show during the debate too, or is this just Biden was too old only? For example, his answer for how he would help people suffering from fentnlyl addiction was not related to the subject and when the moderators re asked he said they got a dog. One dog. Biden pointed out there was a bipartisan bill to fund detection machines that Trump killed. Sure it was hard for him to get it out in an amazing orator way, but he did, and that was just one example. Everything has been Biden shit show, but where is the actual nuance here? Not everything last night was on Biden, and he did get some zingers off... And trump was a nightmare
Can we talk about how Trump was a shit show during the debate too
Absolutely.
I won't even go off about "both sides".
And trump was a nightmare
Exactly as was expected, he's constantly in the public eye, everyone knew what he was going to be like.
Like, if you open a septic tank and it's full of shit, no one is going to be surprised.
If your boss opens the door to his office and it's full of shit, people are gonna mention it.
I think most people expected Trump to be a blathering insane idiot and so when he avoids questions to rant about something nonsequitor and bizarre its "normal". Anyone with all their mental faculties should be able to run circles around someone like Trump.
People are disappointed that Biden is in such shambles as they were hoping he'd be able to debate against a brain-worm ridden bigoted chatterbox and he dropped the ball so fucking bad and now they're worried about the future of democracy in the country
The biggest argument against removing Biden from the ticket against his will is that we went through a bunch of primaries, and he has won enough delegates to be the nominee. For the party that claims to be about protecting democracy, it would be a stretch to tell all those Primary voters "Hey, guess what? Your vote doesn't really count" so directly.
But, there are contingency plans for a reason. If Biden's doctors decide he has a sudden case of chronic not-gonna-win-itis that is affecting his health, and he gets a sudden medical diagnosis that forces him from the race (and the Presidency), there are precisely two people who can take over without the Democratic Party totally abandoning the democratic process:
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the newly minted 47th President. Kamala Harris. While she did not get any delegates herself, as Biden's VP she shares the ticket and would take over the Presidency once he backs out.
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Dean Phillips , who as far as I know is the only other candidate to get any Primary delegates. No, "uncommitted" doesn't count.
Nobody else can swoop in and take over, because they have no legitimate relationship to the Biden ticket, or to the primaries.
we went through a bunch of primaries, and he has won enough delegates to be the nominee.
Lol...
NH got their delegates removed because they keep voting progressive and the DNC declared Biden the winner after like a week.
For a lot of states, Biden was the only option listed
Nobody else can swoop in and take over
Right.
This all hinges on either Biden or the person he appointed to head the DNC doing the right thing to give us the best shot of stopping trump.
It's incredibly unlikely, especially if no one speaks up and says Biden hurts our chances of stopping trump.
Biden is the one person in America not doing everything he can to stop trump who has the power to almost guarantee Trump is stopped.
All he has to do is realize at 82 years old, maybe he shouldn't be committing to 4 years of the most stressful job on the fucking planet.
Yes, the primaries may be a huge joke, but they at least have the veneer of democracy over them. Primaries are formal elections run by each state, so there are laws to follow regarding how delegates are applied.
Here's what I think now: I'm sure Barack Obama watched that debate, and came to the same conclusion we all did. If anyone has Biden's ear on this, it's Obama. Obama needs to get on the phone with Joe, and have a heart-to-heart about how fucking devastating that thing was. He should point out how much damage was done by RBG not retiring when it was her time to do so. I'm sure he had those discussions directly with her in 2015.
(Edited to add: according to the NYT, Obama's not going there
“Bad debate nights happen,” Mr. Obama said in a statement. “Trust me, I know. But this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life and someone who only cares about himself.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/us/politics/biden-democrats-nominee-2024-election.html
I still have confidence that Joe can do the job, but not so much that he is electable anymore. I hope I'm wrong, and in November, if he is on the ballot I will still vote for him, and not regret it.
In retrospect, maybe we should have had a Primary debate after all.
In retrospect, maybe we should have had a Primary debate after all
We need to every election.
Bernie pulled Biden's campaign (if nothing else) to the left, which helped Biden in an incredibly close general.
The primary is a chance for party voters to show what they want, and the winning candidate then knows where his bread is buttered.
With no primary, there's no one to pull Biden left, and he cant afford to lose any votes from 2020.
But this time Biden doesn't give a fuck what voters say unless they're saying how great he is. It's the same sense of entitlement that cost Hillary her election and got trump his first term.
We're just repeating 2016
Maybe the party needs to adopt bylaws saying that there shall be no fewer than three candidates in any Presidential primary, even for an incumbant. That will take away a bit of the stigma against challenging an incumbent. It would no longer be a direct challenge to the establishment, and more of a party role to fill.
The stigma of primary challenges exists because old guard Dems want everything to run off seniority, because they have the seniority.
And you could kind of make that argument when it was capping out at 30 years experience.
Biden has been in the federal government for about half a century.
When there's no cap to age, people hang around waiting for their turn, which clogs senior positions and prevents you get generations from getting experience.
It all comes down to old people refusing to step aside for the next generations, and those old people all agreeing that they should hold onto power till they die in office.
They won't step aside, so for the good of the party, they need to be set aside.
Voters are more important than any party. We don't need them, they need us.
Yeah the problem I think with the idea they can nominate someone else at the convention are that I believe the delegates are obligated under the first ballot to vote as they were voted. So Biden's going to win the first ballot. There's no way not to have that happen. If there were enough other candidates that the first ballad wasn't enough to reach the threshold then yeah they could all change their votes after. That's just not the case because nobody ran against Joe Biden. Or nobody worth even the time it would take to spell their name properly here.
Dean Phillips has even less of a claim to the nomination than the people who didn't run at all considering he was on the ballot and firmly rejected.
There is a zero percent chance that if Biden backs out that Phillips would even be considered.
Seems clear to me that it should be Kamala.
I agree if it happens it should be Kamala, I only bring Dean Phillips up because he actually has a handful of delegates pledged to him. It is less of a stretch to pick someone who campaigned for the job and actually got primary votes vs. someone who didn't even participate in the primaries.
The only way Biden leaves the race is by his own choice. He can be cajoled to leave but the party isn't going to force him out. The question would be who would replace him and he would have a lot of say in that matter. I would say Harris and Newsome would be the two most likely picks. Personally, I think Newsome would be the right choice since he is corporate enough to please the neoiberals but forward on enough issues to not totally lose the progressives.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden ‘s halting debate performance on Thursday night has led some in his own party to begin questioning whether he should be replaced on the ballot before November.
Democratic rules mandate that the delegates Biden won remain bound to support him at the party’s upcoming national convention unless he tells them he’s leaving the race.
The Democratic National Committee could convene before the convention opens on Aug. 19 and change how things will work, but that isn’t likely as long as Biden wants to continue seeking reelection.
The Democratic National Convention is being held in Chicago, but the party has announced that it will hold a virtual roll call to formally nominate Biden before in-person proceedings begin.
If Biden were to abruptly leave the race, conservative groups have suggested they will file lawsuits around the country, potentially questioning the legality of the Democratic candidate’s name on the ballot.
But Elaine Kamarck, a senior fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution in Washington, who wrote a book about the presidential nominating process and is also a member of the Democratic National Committee’s rulemaking arm, said that courts have consistently stayed out of political primaries as long as parties running them weren’t doing anything that would contradict other constitutional rights, such as voter suppression based on race.
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