this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
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General Discussion

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founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

A good example is https://lemmy.world/c/documentaries

One of their mods, https://lemmy.world/u/sabbah, currently mods 54 communites despite only being on Lemmy for about a month and has never posted on c/documentaries (except for his post asking for people to join his mod team).

The other mod, https://lemmy.world/u/AradFort, has one post to c/documentaries and moderates 18 communities.

Does Lemmy.World have a plan to remove this kind of cancer before we start getting reddit supermods here too?

Edit: This comment shows how this is even more dangerous than I had thought.

Edit2: Official answer from LW admin is here

Final: Was going to create an issue for this on the Lemmy github, but I browsed for awhile and found that it had already been done. If anyone wants to continue the discussion there, here it is - https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/3452

Perhap we need another issue for the problem in the original edit (It being impossible currently to remove a 'founding' mod without destroying either the community of their account)

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[–] [email protected] 171 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I knew this would happen and that's why I am FOR hardcoded community limits per user unless an admin, in individual cases, allows the user to open additional communities based on past handling of other communities the user has been (or was supposed to be) modding.

Letting a user create 54 communities, especially those that were some of the biggest communities on Reddit is dangerous. Powermodding is a serious problem on online platforms and letting individual users create unlimited communities leads to it. Imagine how much money this person might want to sell their Account(s) for when the platform grows further and interest might accrue?

It is humanely impossible to mod more than a handful of communities alone anyways. The users you mentioned are powermods.

As another good example against freedom of creating unlimited communities is user LMAO whom most of you will probably at least have heard of by now, or even found when searching for a community that has numbers in its name.

I will stand by this position.

[–] ShakeThatYam 28 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Couldn't someone make alt accounts?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago

Should we just keep the door open with an advertising sign or should we at least take the advertising sign away?

That's not an argument not to introduce hardcoded limits, it is a problem for sure, but leaving them the opportunity without at least making it a bit of a hassle is just going to invite opportunity assholes.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

Admin owners can see IPs, which will grab most of the abusers who do this.

There are other less direct techniques that major social media platforms use to identify users with multiple accounts even on separate IPs, which Lemmy will certainly need one day.

For now though, simply using IPs is good enough until those more sophisticated algorithms are developed.

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[–] Izzy 157 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I've been trying to get an active mod to take over on the lemmy.world battlestations community, but despite my efforts posting in the lemmy.world support community which the admins have suggested doing for this exact issue there has been no change. https://lemmy.world/u/mandlar

In general I find it pointless for there to exist a million empty communities even when the creators have good intentions. Most of them are sub communities of a broader category which only serves to unnecessarily split a community while there is barely traffic in the broader topic. You shouldn't make a more specific topiced community unless the subject you want to discuss is getting burried in overwhelming traffic of the broader community.

[–] givesomefucks 88 points 1 year ago

But there's people out there who want to be "top mod" and do zero work. It's like opening a lemonade stand but the only employee is a CEO that works from home.

They think since a community on reddit existed with that name, all they have to do is make a Lemmy community with the same name.

[–] deweydecibel 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

One of the worst things about Reddit was that you could make a subreddit for anything but peeling away any amount of users from the "main" sub was next to impossible and forget about new user traffic without having the "default" name. Therefore the mods of that sub become the defacto admins of that topic on reddit until they piss off enough people to really get an alternative moving. Many different subreddits were actively fucked up by bad moderation but users kept dog piling in because it had the basic name you would think to search for, i.e. "television" or "videos" or "movies" or what have you. That name is real estate on reddit because no one else can have it, and that keeps horrible mods entrenched.

I think we should encourage several hubs and stop worrying about "splitting" communities. We have the benefit here of letting different communities grow under the same name to avoid that situation where a shitty mod team gets unchallenged ownership. No one else could make a /r/sandiego, so they never shook that real estate free from its horrible mod. Here? That's not an issue.

For example, one of Lemmy.world's biggest communities was locked by the head mod and forced to a different instance to join with another community. Without input from the lemmy.world users. It's still sitting there in the communities list, locked, but high up on subscribers. Meanwhile the instance it was moved to is moderated much more strictly. Admins over there heavily "curate"; remove any post they don't think are worthy enough to be posted.

I think that community should be unlocked and a new moderator should be allowed to take over, so there's a different version of that community on a different instance, then people can have a choice between what type of moderation they want to exist under.

Edit: [email protected]

Edit2: Reworded this mess for clarity

[–] givesomefucks 20 points 1 year ago

Pruning is an important step.

It would be insane for admins to say that sub that lasted a month gets to just stay locked forever

[–] tburkhol 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Federation directly addresses this. If there's a locked community, or a fake community on some instance, make another elsewhere. There will be some growing pains, but eventually people should migrate to the community that best suits their interests and attitudes. It's messy and more work than just taking the big corporate sponsored option, but that's the nature of organic communities.

There was another thread recently asking, "Do I need to subscribe to [community] on all these different instances?" Sure, that's a great way to find the 'best' one for you. Or just sub the biggest, or the one on the biggest instance, and hope for the best.

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[–] antik 30 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Mandler has not been active in a month. If you want any of the communities make a post there, tag me and I will add you as a moderator.

[–] givesomefucks 24 points 1 year ago

Dude was on Lemmy for 1 day and snagged 8 different pokemon subs...

He was really trying to catch them all

[–] grue 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I requested !fire (Financial Independence/Retire Early, for those who don't know.)

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[–] mightyfoolish 62 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The LemmyAsk and LemmyExplain names are pretty clever. I hope those communities stick over the reddit-replacement communities like "AskLemmy".

[–] GratefullyGodless 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How about a travel one called LemmyPeopleGo?

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mod a bunch. Only because I joined when Lemmy got it's big first wave, and the site was literally dead. My contribution was making communities for people to start posting in, because a ton of people simply don't want to moderate, or don't know how to create communities.

Within the first week I got a bunch of DMs from people asking to be mods, and I added all of them. I am not making communities to horde them. I am making them so people have places to post. To get the ball rolling.

[–] orientalsniper 10 points 1 year ago

Me too, I created 3 communities to help onboard new members, haven't gotten the time to upload a logo yet.

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[–] TeaHands 43 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is a current initiative to get new mods for communities that are being used, but have inactive mods. Whether that covers any of these and what exactly the criteria are for "inactive", I do not know.

[–] SomeoneElse 28 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I mod 3 very small communities (less than 800 subscribers total) but other than creating the communities and posting some content to get the ball rolling I haven’t actually done any modding. I’m not sure what there is to do. No one has tagged or messaged me, no ones reported anything… am I inactive, redundant or just a terrible mod?!

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Just ban a random user each week to show you're still active.

You have enough users to make it at least 800 weeks!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I offer myself as tribute πŸ₯Ί

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Lemmy is still small enough that you may just be getting lucky with everyone behaving themselves. If no one is reporting anything, just try to stay in-the-loop with the general goings on in the community so you can jump in if something does happen.

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[–] asunaspersonalasst 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Is this a phenomenon where power mods from Reddit are making these fallout shelters to establish their status quo here in case Reddit really dies?

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[–] fubo 33 points 1 year ago

Currently the way communities work is a "homesteading" model: whoever gets there first gets complete control, unless the instance admin decides otherwise and takes it away.

This is not the only way that things could work.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago

People trying to be power mods on Lemmy. We saw how well that worked on other sites...

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The admins have started releasing some subs, but the world isn't the limit of the fedeverse. If I was to start a new community, I probably wouldn't host it here.

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[–] Hazdaz 25 points 1 year ago

Fix this problem now before all the Reddit refugees decide that the new boss isn't any better than the old boss.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (5 children)
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[–] antik 19 points 1 year ago

Our stance on squatting made clear using [email protected] as an example https://lemmy.world/post/1661949

[–] InvaderDJ 14 points 1 year ago

How would you stop this in a fair, repeatable way? Especially since alts are so easy to create.

It makes me think this type of behavior is inevitable in any community where users can create their own subs. There might not be any easy way to deter this.

[–] s38b35M5 13 points 1 year ago (11 children)

What happened when you posted about this in [email protected]? If no traction there, you can always email [email protected]

They would likely need to be deleted, unless things have changed since this comment was made.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Should do what Reddit did and make a takeover request subreddit. Admins would step in on subs that are clearly abandoned or squatted on and relinquish control to users who requested it. Nothing is lost anyways, since the subreddits were dead to begin with. Same can apply to the Lemmy instances.

[–] antik 47 points 1 year ago (7 children)

But there are options?

We might not always react as fast as you like but this isn't our job it's a hobby project and sometimes there are other, more important issues that have to be handled first. But we will get to it! Cheers

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[–] soulifix 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There should be a regulation on this. This shouldn't be treated like Reddit here. If a user creates more than 4 communities and is unable to moderate every single one after that 4th one, be it 5 or 10 whatever. They should lose access to all of those communities and it's offered to a user who's more active and willing to moderate it.

This is why Reddit's moderation is as bad as it is. They have to rely on automoderation to do their work and there are users on there, like awkwardtheturtle, who moderate 100+ communities. They can't quite possibly have that much time to maintain a single one.

[–] Cariocecus 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am moderator of the four communities I have created and I am thinking of creating a few more, but once each of these communities has a regular user base, I will make my place available and appoint other moderators.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Good admins and moderation are the cornerstones of any community. Always have been, always will be.

[–] itadakimasu 11 points 1 year ago

Big problem. No immediate good solution

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Luckily there's a bunch of instances not just lemmy.world. If we find it's starting to get too centralized we can always subscribe to other communities. Or am I wrong?

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

@ktr41n Same problem in Kbin. Some people register a ton of magazines (known as community) and do not moderate at all.

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