this post was submitted on 06 May 2024
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Chonky nozzel + decent amount of material = opportunity for lots of spaghetti (lemmy.world)
submitted 6 months ago by IMALlama to c/3dprinting
21 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Any suggestions before trying again after a reset? This is my first go round changing nozzle diameter. I went from a 0.4 mm nozzle to a 0.6 mm nozzle.

After the swap I checked my extrusion multiplier (no change needed) and tuned pressure advance (I had to decrease the value a bit, but it looks spot on now).

As part of the nozzle swap, I also bumped line width from 125% to 150% in Orca Slicer (should be around 0.9mm extrusion width) and increased layer height to 0.3mm. This should put me around 22 mm^3/s of material, which shouldn't be an issue for a Rapido 2 but this is the most flow I've pushed through it so far. Maybe I should bump temp a touch? I'm still at my fairly-low-for-ASA 230 that I was using with my 0.4mm nozzle.

The print didn't move on the bed and shows no signs of warpage. There also aren't any signs of curling on the areas that the nozzle must have hit to cause the layer shift.

The only thing that seems like a miss was having z lift turned off while troubleshooting a print quality issue. I had it set to only lift above 0.25mm (not on the first layer) and only lift below z 0mm (this probably disabled z-hop). Z hop when retracting is set to 0.2mm, which is less than my 0.4mm retraction length so it seems like changing the "only lift below below z" value would re-enable z-hop.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Generally speaking yes, with bigger nozzles and higher flow rates you will need slightly higher temps- the conduction rate thru the nozzle to the plastic is constant, but you are heating up more plastic and need more energy (thus, higher temps).
You will then also need more part cooling fan as there is more plastic bulk to be cooling.

230 is much much too low for ASA, that stuff is a bit picky. Try 250.

[–] IMALlama 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Bah, I typoed. I'm running 250 first layer/240 following layers, which is still lower than what most usually recommend. I was running 235 pretty consistently previously. I'll have to try printing a temp tower with the bigger nozzle. Here's one from the 0.4mm nozzle, granted also with my prior Rapido 1 (RIP).

Below 230 or so, layer adhesion was pretty poor

Above 245 or so, I started getting a lot of very fine/wispy stringing. It basically looked like ultrafine thread and would get itself stuck in my hot end fans.

You will then also need more part cooling fan as there is more plastic bulk to be cooling.

Thanks to somewhat low chamber temps (350mm^3 printer with only acrylic panels), I've been keeping cooling somewhat low. I recently added some more bed fans to help my bed filter out, so maybe I can try a bit more if it starts becoming an issue.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Even 250 is a bit low for that high of a volume. Are you running a brass nozzle or a hardened/stainless steel nozzle? Steel nozzles will require even more hotend temp due to their low conduction rates. Eg, with the stainless nozzles on a Bambu P1S, I have to run ASA at around 260/262 for higher print speeds.

If stringing is a problem consider increasing the speed of your filament retraction (not distance) You may also want to turn off z-hop. Sounds wild I know, but it does help- by not lifting the nozzle during a rapid move, it "wipes" the nozzle clean as it moves off the part and reduces stringing. Realistically you shouldn't use z-hop at all unless you have a part with a very small cross section that keeps falling over when the nozzle wipes across it. Which ofc, the big print I see in the photo looks like it will have zero stability problems, lol.

[–] IMALlama 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

@[email protected], replying to you as well here.

This is a hardened steel nozzle. 260 looked a little rough, but 255 looks pretty good. The temp tower got knocked off the bed at 235. It does look like I'll need to bump cooling a touch. Currently working on a retraction tower.

If stringing is a problem consider increasing the speed of your filament retraction (not distance)

I'll have to give this a go after this retraction tower prints. On the last one I printed there was basically no difference on any of the settings once it got above 0.2mm of retraction. In my time with the rapido, any filament left in the nozzle will ooze out if its left hot but it doesn't string that badly.

You may also want to turn off z-hop. Sounds wild I know, but it does help- by not lifting the nozzle during a rapid move, it “wipes” the nozzle clean as it moves off the part and reduces stringing. Realistically you shouldn’t use z-hop at all unless you have a part with a very small cross section that keeps falling over when the nozzle wipes across it.

Yup, I've run into this realization too - that's part of the reason why I was thinking to have z-hop on for this print

Which ofc, the big print I see in the photo looks like it will have zero stability problems, lol.

Adding two more bed fans, for a total of 4 (2 loose bed fans, 2 fans in my filter) and getting a bang on first layer (yay klipper_z_calibration) seem to have really helped with warping. I do have some ACM panels that I want to swap on to bump chamber temps up more, but I haven't taken the time to print new magnetic inserts for them yet.

Knock on wood...

[–] Dettweiler42 4 points 6 months ago

I'm definitely going to try the retraction speed (instead of distance) and no z-hop in the morning.

[–] Dettweiler42 4 points 6 months ago

Still try the higher temp, but bump up your retraction to counteract that. I went with the same move for printing silk to get cleaner layers, and it's worked out really well.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Completely agree, but I have no experience with ASA. 22 mm3/s is super high, Id probably start with the highest temp marked on the spool. You can also test your max flow.

On the other hand, you had a layer shift which could happen for other reasons as well

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yeah. ASA basically acts like ABS when printing for the most part, it does need temps to be a tiny bit higher but mechanically everything else is almost entirely the same.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Thanks, I ordered some Polymaker ASA recently, will try it out.

[–] IMALlama 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Polymaker ASA is what I'm currently using. You can grab 3 KG spools on Amazon for as low as $50-60 depending on the color (new via prime) if you keep an eye out.

The mix of ASA and a higher flow printer as resulted in a lot more fickle prints though, but this is also true for PETG. Things like EM vary some as a function of speed, so I've found that I need to print all my features at a similar speed.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Total anecdote, I had nothing but problems with Polymaker ASA, which I believe was me trying to run it through too fast. i have a dragon UHF which is, in theory, supposed to be able to do speeds over 30 mm^3/s, first thing I'd try is just slower print speeds and then bump it up from there.

You could also look at a cht nozzle, but as a word of warning, I found the bimetallic ones super fragile, if I recall they want a way lower torque spec than a solid brass or steel nozzle, so they're easy to shear off if you're not careful.

Edit: Leaving the original comment, but I think I may have mixed up for esun abs plus.

[–] IMALlama 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

What kinds of problems have you had? It's been OK for me. Sure, it's harder to print than PETG but it's also ASA. I do find myself wondering if it's the material or my setup at times though. So far I've run about 7 kg of the stuff. You can find a bunch of it in my post history.

What did you switch to?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I had clogging and stringing issues, which not unexpected when jumping between materials. I had tried it to reduce smell, but ended up not finding much of a difference for me. Prusament ASA was decent but really expensive (duties alone). I probably didn't give it (polymaker) a fair chance, had really good results with the polymaker pla and polyterra pla for some decorative prints. I've definitely had my share of hit and miss with amazon filament, they certainly are way better than I recall them being a decade ago, I do try to dry them now before using and stick with a few brands. I may also be misattributing issues to the polymaker asa, I also bought esun abs+ at the same time, I was building a nevermore max, one of the two just gave me grief and I was mildly annoyed with failed prints.

In terms of what I use now, I have had a lot of luck with Spool3D abs and petg, I sourced a lot of parts from them and found their filament pretty solid (though I'm not sure who supplies it). Recently I've been using Matter3D abs and pla, they have a wood fill pla I liked and their abs printed nicely for me. I'm Canadian so import duties and shipping can be killer, so trying to find a domestic supply was my goal. I definitely still use polymaker, have used a bunch of standard abs and their colour selection is amazing. I don't tend to go for asa over abs, if only for price, looking at amazon, for polymaker 2x1 kg black is $55 cad for abs and $77 cad for ASA, I can almost get an entire third spool for the difference in price.

[–] IMALlama 2 points 6 months ago

Thanks for the reply. I haven't had clogging issues with it, but I have had some whispy stringing until I lowered my temp a touch. My preferred filament house (Atomic Filament) looks like they're offering ASA so maybe I'll give them a shot. My biggest issue is warping and I can't imagine that other brands are going to be that different. I finally got great bed plate adhesion but my last print pulled the magnetic surface up.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Thx! Sounds like rly good deal, but 3 kg is not for me honestly. I dont print that much and also my spool holder is too small. 500 g spools would be better for me hehe

Not sure what EM is, but if you meant that some parts of print are shiny and the rest is matte, its probably different flow. Having equal speeds should fix that, I saw a video where they reduce max flow as solution

[–] IMALlama 1 points 6 months ago

EM means extrusion multiplier, which is also called flow in some slicers. Shiny vs not is usually a temperature thing.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Do a test print on something smaller (and cheaper!), if it's a z issue it should occur based on height right? So print something relatively tall and thin.

No weird properties/looks on the stuff that did print?

(Relative noob myself here)

[–] IMALlama 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I've had a few smaller prints go off without any problems, but could always give something a little taller a go just to be safe.

[–] FuglyDuck 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It could be layer adhesion being hampered by bed temp. What are you printing in? Does it have a lot of warping at the corners?

[–] IMALlama 2 points 6 months ago

I think I found what was happening. Z hop was off and as the nozzle traveled at warp speeds over the print it was touching the prior layer ever so slightly. I think it snagged the infill in this print. Trying again with a hotter extruder and z-hop on.

It's printing in an acrylic enclosed Voron 2.4. Zero warping.

[–] CrayonRosary 3 points 6 months ago

Oop! Spaghett!