It would be so amazingly fantastic if the West had any moral credibility left, because it is true that in the case of Ukraine, the West is actually preaching the right thing: a rules based international order, where nations have the right to self determination and other countries don't get to arbitrarily decide whether you have the right to exist. Like, exactly what Palestinians need.
this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2024
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If there is one thing the unwavering support for the Israeli Genocide in Gaza from the likes of the US, UK and Germany has done was completelly burn their moral credibility.
Nobody outside a very small political circle jerk of hard neolibs and fascists (applauded by their mindless tribalist useful idiots) around the US pays any attention to any criticism of other nations by this US Administration.
Further, I suspect this doesn't just apply in the "Global South" but also in most of Europe (as both the Brits and the Germans are atypical, though for different reasons, and there are a lot of europeans who, for some "strange reason" have an instinctive hate of larger more powerfull nations murdering people in weaker nations).
Way to blow up your soft power to help out a bunch of murderous radical Fascists in a Middle Eastern Theocracy commiting Genocide along etnic lines.
I think many of us paying attention over the long term have realized that the US pretty much never had the right to even claim moral credibility. Whether evidenced by our treatment of our own citizens or our constant involvement in other countries we have corporate business "interests" with. We constantly destabilize and overthrow other countries for our corporate "masters."
I think honest people want to believe the best of others, and the US under Biden got a lot of "he's not the same as the others" goodwill up until the point he gave unwavering support to people that were mass murdering their neighbours in the most violent racist way possible, comparable only with the Nazis.
It's pretty hard to come across as a Humanitarian or ever just "not a Racist" when you're excusing a Genocide because the nation comitting it has a certain majority etnic makeup and that's exactly were not just the US but the UK, Germany and to a lesser externt some European countries went.
Personally I wasn't at all surprised by the US or the UK's position but was about Germany. Clearly Germany's "never again" wasn't the Humanitarian version - "never again shall people be killed for their etnicity" - but the racist version - "never again shall our nation do this to Jews (not people in general but a very specific etnicity)" - which not only explains their "unwavering support for the Jewish Nation" but also the "strange" detail that the etnicity that was even more victimized by the Nazis - the Roma, aka Gypsies - post-War never received Germany's unwavering support: guess some "etnics" never stopped being untermenschen.
Being from a Southern European country - Portugal - and having lived in The Netherlands, before all this I assumed that the Dutch tendency to "try and be fair to other people" was also shared by their "High German" speaking neighbours. I was wrong, so very incredibly wrong!
Yeah Ukraine was a bit of a departure from the norm. It was a "wait, are we the good guys for once?" moment.
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(29 replies)
China gave a solid 1.5 year buffer because they too saw Russia fumbling and probably expected NATO to finish the job when the war started.
Instead they just witnessed 2 years of profiteering on 90s surplus military technology and hindering Ukraine's ability to fight.
Now that Russia has proved its half stable and not going anywhere, China will happily sell whatever to them as long as the profit is stable.
Although its also funny how both sides are using a ton of DJI drones which China "allegedly" stopped selling.
China's accurately balancing it's profits. It can sell much more products to it's primary markets if it gets resources from Russia and get some bonus on also selling sanctioned or illegal stuff with a huge margin. Can NATO or other structure condition it to back off a little? Probably yes since a lot of banks started to slow down or deny processing payments from russian corporations. Can it stop it completely? Probably not, but with every new barrier, the russian economy suffers from underdelivery and overpaying for a banal stuff.
NATO economies are probably much more profitable for China. If NATO wanted to get serious about supporting Ukraine we would be sanctioning not only Russia, but also countries that don't sanction Russia. China and India would quickly change their policy on Russian trade.
Till there is petroleum in Russia neither China nor India is going to change their relationship with Russia. I don't think even European nations have completely stopped relying on Russia for their energy needs.
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In case the US has forgotten, China is selling key technology like drones to Ukraine, too. If that's not staying neutral and not picking a side, I don't know what is. The US wants China to pick the US side, not stay neutral. In fact, China currently has a trade deficit with Ukraine.
In February 2024, China exported $221M and imported $477M from Ukraine, resulting in a negative trade balance of $256M.
https://www.wsj.com/world/how-american-drones-failed-to-turn-the-tide-in-ukraine-b0ebbac3
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Smith was speaking shortly before U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken visits China on Wednesday. He's expected to warn Chinese officials not to provide aid to Russia.
Or else they're going to get a very stern talking to.
Does that make this a proxy war?
Weird to think of Russia as a puppet in a proxy war. They used to be puppet masters but oh how the mighty have fallen.
Putin cares about power. He probably thinks Russia can turn on China and destroy them too.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted.
Surely Putin thinks that. It's not true, but I'm sure he thinks Russia is that powerful.
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As is iran, north korea, hungary, turkey....
This is the best summary I could come up with:
BRUSSELS — China is helping Russia meet its war goals in Ukraine by continuing to sell supplies such as drone technology and gunpowder ingredients to Moscow, the U.S.
"The PRC [People's Republic of China] cannot claim to be entirely neutral in this case, [and] they are in fact picking a side," Julianne Smith told POLITICO on Tuesday.
Smith said the United States was "increasingly seeing materiel support" from China to Russia, adding that this equipment — which can have both civilian and military uses — had played a critical role in helping Moscow achieve some of its aims against Ukraine.
She outlined the kind of support that Beijing had been giving Moscow, including "machine tools, microelectronics, UAV technologies and nitrocellulose that is used as a propellant."
Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), more commonly known as drones, have played a significant role in the war for both sides, while China's massive output of nitrocellulose — a key ingredient for making gunpowder — is a concern for Europe's own defense industry.
Beijing insists that it's not a "party" to the war — and defends what it calls "normal trading relationships" with Moscow while accusing the U.S. of actively sending arms to Ukraine.
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