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Simple EV cars (lemmy.cafe)
submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/evs

Does anyone think that there'll ever be a simple EV car produced for market without all the extra junk found in most electric cars? Why or why not?

I don't see the need for the infotainment dash, personal data tracking, self-driving, lack of physical buttons, and lack or reparability.

Wouldn't it be nice to have an EV that is probably cheaper without all that forced extra stuff? Can't we just have a simple EV that has an electric engine that is reliable, cheaper, and doesn't have a need for constant software updates? Maybe you can work on it in your garage for the most part for simple maintenance.

I'd really like to have an EV one day but seems like they are all super expensive, have no sense of ownership like typical cars, are constantly tracking you, and are trying to shove extra features down your throat.

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[-] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago

Most of what you're talking about is put in ICE cars now also.

I just don't want my car listening to my conversations and tracking where I'm going. That would be nice.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Very true. I haven't been looking at the ICE market mostly because I drive an old car and probably will until it breaks. But that's also very frustrating.

[-] [email protected] 22 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

infotainment dash

Cars in the US are required to have rear-facing cameras. There's going to be a screen for that. It makes sense to incorporate some things into that screen, because that's what people expect now. Android Auto/Car Play for sure. Doesn't have to be a touchscreen; Mazda does that right with a center console knob and buttons.

OTA software updates are a good thing, to be able to address service issues without having to go to a dealership. Previously, car computer updates had to be done with a USB stick.

electric engine that is reliable

Electric motors are super reliable and hardly ever need servicing. Batteries are getting better, but as of right now, you have to replace the entire battery pack, at great cost. I'd love to see a more modular battery configuration with replaceable cells.

self-driving

Adaptive cruise control is a game changer in every way. It makes driving so much safer. The radar is already there, might as well using it for lane departure and steering assist.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

Seriously where did they get that electric motors aren't reliable? The same motor technology has been powering diesel-electric locomotives for nearly a hundred years and those traction motors really rack up the miles...

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Not to mention that the basic underlying premise of an electric motor is dead simple in comparison to an ICE.

Sure, it gets more complex the more you scale it up, etc. But at the end of the day, an eight year old can build an approximation of a motor.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

Assisted driving is now evaluated as a safety feature by the certifications agency.

So unfortunately not adding adaptive cruise control, crash detection and all that would means degrading the safety rating of the car and no manufacturer would do that.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

Just to clarify, I didn't mean that electric engines weren't reliable. It was more of a combination of things I'd like to see in an EV. And I'm all down for all those other features too! I just would like a barebones option for us poors, you know? You can have different tiered options, and maybe getting rid of all the extra features can make for a reliable cheaper car. And in a barebones model, why would you need constant OS updates? Just have the engine tuned like other things in a car like electric fuel injection. Everything else should be like clockwork.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago

Oh, I agree. I think the electric car market is way too "tech heavy," certainly for my liking, but I also think that at present, reducing the amount of fiddly tech stuff wouldn't reduce the price of the vehicle by very much. "Well, if I just pay a little bit more, I get a whole lot more."

The battery is what costs. And people who are going to buy a cheap electric car are going to be people for whom that is their only car, so it needs to do a lot of things, including going on long trips, which means having a long range. A 100-mile range commuter car would be perfect for a whole lot of people, except for that one time they might want to go on a vacation in it, or load it up with luggage and take three or four people to the airport.

[-] BreadstickNinja 4 points 1 month ago

I use a Gen 1 Nissan Leaf as a commuter car that I got for $9k. The average sales price for a new vehicle in general is around $40k these days. Get a used Chevy Bolt would be my recommendation, better range than the Leaf, CCS charging, and the price is probably around $12-14k.

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[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

OTA software updates are a good thing, to be able to address service issues without having to go to a dealership. Previously, car computer updates had to be done with a USB stick.

Which I would vastly prefer over someone bricking my car remotely because some intern fat-fingered a command.

[-] mesamunefire 18 points 1 month ago

I agree, I want the dumbest ev possible. I'm a software dev and the last thing I want is a touch screen attached to a car you can't replace plus a battery you can't replace.

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[-] I_Miss_Daniel 9 points 1 month ago

The conversion kit market might meet this desire a bit.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

I suppose after market modifications are always a place to address needs not being met by manufacturers. But how likely are you going to do that if it voids your warranty, and your car needs to be maintained by authorized repair for things related to software that isn't available to the public or other things locked into the company ecosystem?

[-] satanmat 7 points 1 month ago

Seconded!!

Just enough computing power to handle braking regeneration, and charging.

I’ve driven for (Cough) years, I’m good. I’ll use Waze or something if I need help.

I don’t need 8 billion sensors thanks.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You don't need much computing power to control an EV. See all the electric scooters with absurdly dumb electronics. You just need to scale it up and use hardware matching the needs of a car. The logic can stay the exact same.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago
[-] satanmat 3 points 1 month ago

The VW Beetle of EVs. Please

[-] iluminae 7 points 1 month ago

I was excited for this car that was all about simplicity and recyclability, sacrificing speed and features: https://www.citroen.co.uk/about-citroen/concept-cars/citroen-oli.html

But of course, they will never actually make and sell it :(

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

This seems like its exactly on point to what I was hoping for. I really hope this is something that takes off in the EV industry!

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Ami_(electric_vehicle)

Tons of others, too. But yes, the selection is still obviously a bit spotty. Hopefully more practical and simple (and affordable) models turn up.

[-] LowtierComputer 3 points 1 month ago

Genuinely the first thought that came into my head. I want one.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

What the hell. It's so silly and cute and I want one.

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

Certainly I would appreciate it. There are some in China. Aptera is probably your best bet, if they ever figure out how to ship a car.

I don't see the need for the infotainment dash

I wish they would go back to installing double-din radios so I could install whatever I wanted.

Then make the car controls a completely parallel system.

personal data tracking

This is for the manufacturer, not for you.

self-driving

I appreciate driver assistance systems as a safety feature.

lack of physical buttons

I'm honestly stumped on this one. I've never found anyone who said "ew look at all these filthy buttons, let's get rid of them" but manufacturers keep doing it. Kinda like Android OS and Android OEMs copy all the dumb shit Apple does for seemingly no reason. Some people say it's cost-cutting but how much does a panel of buttons cost? And what about lost consumer satisfaction? Does that not matter?

Maybe you can work on it in your garage for the most part for simple maintenance.

Nobody makes this because it loses the manufacturer money and people continue to tolerate it, much less all the other corporate shitfuckery across various industries.

Aptera won't even have 1st party techs. They're just going to publicly publish repair manuals and outsource repair to 3rd parties.

I'd really like to have an EV one day but seems like they are all super expensive, have no sense of ownership like typical cars, are constantly tracking you, and are trying to shove extra features down your throat.

This is nothing to do with EVs. Gas cars have all that dumb shit too.

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

I think so, once infrastructure is built out and battery tech has been perfected.

As is, the market is small because you have to be a home owner (good luck charging in an apartment parking lot), and you need to bear the expense of new battery packs every few years.

I could get an EV for my next car, but when my loan is paid off, I now need to get a loan for a new car, or new batteries. A gas car might be less reliable, but it will run for several more years with minor work after the loan is paid off.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Most EVs have a 10 year / 100K miles warranty, at least in the US.

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[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

You are just spreading fud. Batteries do not wear out that quickly, and the infrastructure is here. I just recently drove through a tiny town in the middle of the mountains with less than 400 residents and they had three separate stations for charging, while they only had a single gas station in the whole town. The battery things you are saying are just completely false.

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[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

I think that makes sense. Seems to me that the EV market is mostly considered a luxury commodity at the moment and so isn't being made as a dependable and meaningful alternative to ICE machines yet. It partly worries me though that some law initiatives are pushing for EVs but without addressing waste, and ownership and reliability that applies to dumb cars. I've owned my ICE car for almost 2 decades, and that's something I'd like to see in an EV before I can make the switch.

[-] disguy_ovahea 3 points 1 month ago

In all technology, personal data tracking effectively subsidizes the cost of the device. They can run lower margins with a data-based revenue stream to appease shareholders. If you want privacy, you’ll have to pay more for it.

[-] Xeroxchasechase 4 points 1 month ago

But does this option even exist?

[-] disguy_ovahea 3 points 1 month ago

It does in other forms of technology. It’s only a matter of time until the news shames the practice in the automotive industry enough for a manufacturer to realize that privacy has value in marketing.

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

But does it really subsidize the cost at all? Seems like its more of an additional revenue stream than anything else. So many EVs with tracking are still expensive, so how are they meaningfully making the cars more affordable?

[-] disguy_ovahea 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Why do you think Google can sell the Pixel at such a low price point? The hardware far outperforms other phones in its price range. The difference is that Google is very clear about its use of data collection, and automotive companies are still new to the game, selling it to anyone with a checkbook.

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/9152633

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Canoo vehicles seem pretty simple in principle, but we won't know for sure until they actually start shipping (if they ever do).

As an added bonus, I think they look bad ass.

[-] Professorozone 3 points 1 month ago

I know right, I've never understood why manufacturers making cars for people suffering from range anxiety want to have a motor to open and close the trunk or extend the door handles. Like people can't just lift it up or shut it by hand as we've done for decades?

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

A typical EV has 65 kWh of power. It can provide 65 thousand watts of power for a full hour. That is a massive amount of power compared to which opening a trunk is an unnoticeable rounding error.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

For me it's more about repairability and cost. I can easily replace a mechanical handle, that would probably be tougher and cheaper than an electric moving one.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Okay, I see. My 10-year-old gas car also has a powered liftgate. I hadn’t considered that to be an EV-related feature. Powered door handles are more common on EVs though.

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[-] mennorobert 3 points 1 month ago

Lotus is releasing an EV to the British market that is very stripped down and pretty simple as far as cars go. Problem is I don't think they are releasing to the US market.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Hard to believe that lotus would be the one to give us a stripped down value EV. It would be kinda ironic though since without lotus, tesla wouldn't have a body for the original roadster that got them where they are today.

[-] ramenshaman 2 points 1 month ago
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[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

You might want to look into ev coversions. There are plans to convert any regular car with conversion kits into an ev car.

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this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2024
61 points (93.0% liked)

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