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For fucks sake.
I clearly said I do not like musk. I even went as far as saying I hate him but still that's the first place you went. What the fuck?
Yeah, but there's also the cognitive dissonance of you saying SpaceX is fun because they don't explode...
But they do explode. Waaaaay more than NASA. Because if a NASA launch goes bad, everyone pays attention. If SpaceX goes bad, people just shrug
So by your own metrics you just said...
NASA is better than SpaceX.
No matter what position I took, it would have disagreed with your comment, because your comment disagrees with itself. Which explains why you think spacex is a positive.
I did not say NASA was better than SpaceX, or the other way around. You are putting words in my mouth. Don't do that.
Here is a link to a comment that discusses exactly what you are saying, and it was posted before your comment. So maybe read first then comment.
https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/568410/What-are-some-companies-that-deserve-to-be-boycotted-to#entry-comment-3161709
SpaceX has only had 2 mission failures out of 274 total missions. Since 2017 SpaceX has had a 100% success rate which is a vast majority of its total missions. The recent explosions have been test rockets and expected to blow up, it's how they learn and innovate so quickly. NASA takes billions of dollars and 10+ years to successfully launch a rocket on the first attempt. It's just 2 different approaches to design and innovation.
Nah dude. You don't understand. A guy we don't like is tangibly related to the space program. Fuck all them scientists and engineers. They're all evil. Every. Single. One of them.
Personal insults and incorrectly using "big words"...
For some reason the people who defend Musk and his companies love doing that.
Does it work on 4chan? Is that where you all get this from?
Could you please tell me what "big words" they used? I don't see anything outside normal vocabulary.
Hopefully you don't take this as me defending musk in some way.
A minute and forty five seconds of hate isn’t gonna cut it today buddy
Some people can't get over the fact that spaceX is a net positive for humans. Just as Tesla helped push other manufacturers into the world of EVs. They just hate musk to the point that anything he is associated with is bad.
everyone was moving to EV's with or without tesla. if you want to credit anyone go back to the Prius way back in the late 90s. They set the trend, Tesla jumped on that trend.
I can't say that without Tesla EV would be as popular, mainly because at the time when Tesla started was 9 years after the GM EV1 was a failure. I don't think other companies would have seen building EV as a good investment, but who could know?
I'm not defending musk. So tired of that qualifier in this thread.
The prius is not an EV it's a hybrid and nobody thought they were cool. Even tree huggers like me. Tesla made electric cars cool until everyone found out how poorly they were assembled. Then the other manufacturers, seeing that electric cars could be profitable, started tooling their assembly lines. You have your history completely backwards.
The new Prius Prime is cool af in my opinion.
did not say you were.
it sold incredibly well and proved that there was a market, and yes it was a hybrid as the technology wasn't there. do tesla get kudos for waiting for battery technology now?
do you think that the prius came out after a tesla? you need to explain this one.
it doesn't matter what you find personally cool for what it's worth, then or now.
If I didn't put that qualifier there would be comments talking shit about musk. Read the rest of this comment section and it's clear as day.
The prius did not sell incredibly well. That is completely false. It sold well enough to be profitable but even a standard Corolla sold more year after year. It took a decade or more before any other serious options existed.
The previous paragraph covers your next question. You have your history wrong about how well the Prius sold and how long until EV's became desirable.
A better wording would have been that the new Prius is more desirable than the previous generations. Which reinforces the previous Prius not "being cool."
.... uh, yes. the traditional fossil fuel based card sold better than a car selling to a new market. do you want to compare it to, oh i don't know, a ford focus too? are you trying to talk about the hybrid version that came out in the 2010's like 15 years after the prius?
if you want to make the argument that the prius wasn't instrumental in proving the EV market, good luck. you won't find much backing with these talking points.
Because there was nothing else to compare it to at the time. It was the first viable hybrid, we agree on that. The part that I'm having a hard time explaining is that it was not hugely successful and not the motivation for all current EV's. It wasn't even a plug-in hybrid until 2012. That is 9 years AFTER Tesla.
Major manufactures did not attempt EVs until Tesla made a killing on them. Most of them did not even make serious attempts at hybrids until the mid 2000's.
grab this thread, you can maybe start to understand how they were instrumental in creating and proving the EV market that Tesla would eventually capitalise on top of
I understand your argument, I just don't think it is right.
The Prius never motivated other car manufactures to make EVs. Seriously, tooling the assembly lines did not begin until after Tesla.
Why did it take a decade to go from Prius to Tesla, but a only a few years after Tesla for other manufactures to start seriously producing hybrids and EVs?
I mean the answer to your last thing is battery technology. the lithium ion battery boom is the real driver of EV's in general. you really gotta understand the role that Tesla played here is to surf on the wave, not create it.
Prius made the market look negligible because it was such a repulsive piece of shit most people were too embarrassed to buy them.
Tesla built charging infrastructure. Nobody was willing to rely on an EV, that’s “electric vehicle”, because they didn’t trust the range or the ability to recharge.
That’s why instead of producing EVs, it produced one hybrid, which never at any moment ever asked a consumer to rely entirely on electricity for their transportation.
I'm totally okay with talking about tesla's charging infrastructure being good, but that's a different thing isn't it.
I agree that battery tech is what brought about full EVs. I still disagree that the Prius did.
Could you please name a just couple of the "many others" that successfully implemented the new battery chemistry into their cars? Actually just one other would do. I apologize if that sounds rude it's not my intention. I can't think of a better way of wording this.
Tesla made rich people like EVs instead of making EVs viable for poor people. Tongue off boot please
EVs are still going to be the wrong answer to the problem. Sure, more efficient than combustable, but still vastly less efficient than good public transport systems, walkable/bikeable cities, etc. If Elon really wanted to save the planet, he'd be building bullet trains.
Oh a hundred percent. Better but not enough
I think Musk is unwilling to ignore incentive structure as a necessary component of his plans.
Tesla did help get the economy moving faster to EVs which is a net positive.
I think the way things turned out, anyone could of had that effect Tesla just happened to be in the right place at the right time though.
I don’t get the crazy musk hate. I mostly ignore him but I love that he created the market for electric cars.
Being an adult means you can look at situations in more complex terms than Elon bad.
I think he’s a man child. I dislike his attitude like the Wikipedia name change. That’s just douche material.
I love that he funded Tesla and now we have a viable electric car market.
This is like saying OJ Simpson invented Smuckers Uncrustables so he's not all bad...
Firstly, it's not true.
Secondly, even if it was true, it doesn't amount to enough to celebrate him.
Because putting peanut butter and jelly in a sandwich was already a thing that was popular. It just became worse for the environment and more expensive for consumers by individuall packaging them and requiring them to be frozen.
It is true. Tesla paved the way.
Who said celebrate him. I said I’m glad he did it.
I get you have a binary view of the world. As you mature you may outgrow that but the world is wildly complex.
We wouldn’t have modern electric cars without musk. It took someone willing to take the risk and the big 3 weren’t doing it.
Oh wow...
I mean I was going off of actual facts that you were wrong...
But "it is true" completely changed my mind, without Musk buying a company that already existed, we never would have gotten EVs!
Who had a large scale consumer product before Tesla?
Your claim he didn’t create the market. Who had the market before Tesla? Who else had large scale production before Tesla ?
Who has the largest market share?
Let’s see you prove your claim.
Tesla would have folded if Elon was not part of it. People only started to take notice after the success of Tesla.
No, you said Tesla created the market...
I said that was false, now your demanding I prove your wrong because you can't prove your opinion is facts.
That's not how this is supposed to work...
Yes, I am asking you to back up your claim. Who created the market if it wasn't Tesla? That isn't my opinion. That is well well-documented fact.
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/061915/story-behind-teslas-success.asp
Tesla’s release positioned it as one of the few successful independent automakers and a pioneer in the electric car market.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-can-be-thanked-creating-a-growing-ev-market-2020-10
If you think the growing electric-car market would exist without Tesla, think again
You seem to be the only person who thinks otherwise.
Your first link doesn't even mention your claim...
Your second is an opinion piece that doesn't back up their claims... And I doubt the authors judgement because they said up to 2016 no one was betting on EVs, despite virtually all of the big companies being in the game at that point.
If you set out to prove some people believe it wouldn't happen without Tesla, congrats.
But I can find an article from someone who thinks the world is flat too, that doesn't mean the world is flat.
The first link addressed his claim pretty thoroughly. I suspect you commented that assuming most people would not read it to verify your claim. I have seen you spouting bullshit all throughout this comment section so I had to read it so that I can call you out. You're either lying or extremely bad at understanding the article. He provided links, you provided bullshit.
Here is the actual quote from the second article you take issue with: "But Elon Musk's company has shown that EVs are a viable way to build a business. As recently as 2016, the jury was still out on that matter." So you twisted shit so much you changed the meaning. That's either done in bad faith or you're extremely bad a reading comprehension.
So could you name any EVs that were available from the big companies in 2016?
I hate that I am here defending Tesla, but I hate the bullshit coming from you even more.
At least you finally admitted it, can you stop replying to every comment in this thread now? That'd be great, but I'm fine going back to ignoring you too.
Both articles back the claim.
You have yet to spout anything but your opinion, which goes against everyone else's opinion.
The big 3 were not taking EV cars seriously. They did enough to show they were doing it but their focus was ICE.
Tesla changed that. You are free to stomp your foot all you want but it doesn't change that Tesla drove the EV market forward. They dominate the EV market for that reason and have the highest percentage of people who would buy another Tesla EV.