in a lot of places you are legally obligated to tell cops ur name and show them ur passport or drivers license, when they ask. so if this is the case for u, u should do it (and then shut up and say nothing more without ur lawyer)
this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
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You shouldn't just shut up after identifying yourself either, you should explicitly state that you are exercising your 5th amendment rights and then shut up. Talking afterwards can be taken as rescinding your 5th amendment assertion.
Famously, a judge once ruled that saying "Yo, I want a lawyer, dawg" was actually not a 5th amendment assertion, and that the suspect was genuinely requesting a dog who practices law.
Hi, did you know that there are a large number of English speakers on the internet for whom quoting an amendment of the US constitution would not be helpful?
Yes, I would be one of them. However that still doesn't mean what I've said isn't generally best practice, even in areas where it's not fully required per case law. At the initial interaction with police, you should identify yourself, then clearly say you cannot answer questions without first getting legal advice. Then shut up and don't answer questions.
Although, if you really want to get into the nitty gritty, other jurisdictions may have more extensive requirements for what you must say, so shutting up isn't necessarily the best advice everywhere, all the time. There's also subtle differences between the right to silence and rights against self-incrimination.
In the UK, which first started using right to silence in the 17th century (and then spread its law over much of the rest of the world), inferences can be made from silence. No conviction can be wholly based on silence, but it can be the wrong move. In some situations, eg fraud and terrorism, the right to silence is reduced and you may be obligated to answer. In these circumstances you cannot legally remain silent, but you are still protected against self-incrimination.
Yes, I would be one of them.
That’s worse mate! You said 5th amendment three bloody times, when you could have given the same advice without referencing it at all. It’s not like saying “5th amendment” is a neck verse or something. You can just say “I’m choosing to invoke my right to not answer questions at this time” and as a bonus, that works everywhere that has such a right, including the United States ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Again, only in the US.
Nevertheless, the right to remain silent is protected in many countries. Deciding whether to use it on the other hand, is not always easy.
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You can’t not link the National Lawyer's Guild version! It’s like the best one, and they’re mentioned by name in the picture haha
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I think you'll find you'll start getting taken way more seriously online when you start typing like an adult. Use whole words, not stupid abbreviations. Capitalize and punctuate appropriately.
If you want to be taken seriously online, don't use stupid colloquialisms like "way more seriously." Use grammatically correct phrasing like "far more seriously." Start writing like an adult.
didnt ask + go fuck urself + i type however the fuck i want uwu
i think u might be seen as way less unlikeable if u stopped being such a tight assed bitch <3
i'm an adult. any way i type is like an adult. if someone cant take me serious because of the way i type, thats their issue. i'm in the comment section of an online meme community not writing a work email. i can write however i want as long as its understandable.
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In the US that is a 4th amendment violation. Some states get around that by requiring convicted felons to provide ID, but in most of the US if you haven't been convicted of a felony you have no obligation to identify yourself.
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Important addition: when the nice officer asks you to please leave the vehicle, you're getting out of the vehicle. Whether on your own or by getting pulled through a busted window is up to you.
Ref: Pennsylvania v. Mimms (the driver must follow the LEO's orders), Maryland v. Wilson (the same applies to passengers)
Why is it a dog?
It's a parody of McGruff the crime dog, a propaganda character from the 80s-90s
So that he can Take a Bite Out of Crime. ®
In case somebody asks for "a lawyer, dawg"
Which the court has decided is not invoking your right to an attorney. The cop "can be reasonably confused" that you meant you want a lawyer dog, which you have no right to and they have no obligation to allow for.
Just like Harry Potter, you have to speak the incantations correctly or your rights may be violated. Similarly, speaking after invoking your right to remain silent breaks the silence, so ask for your attorney, then invoke your right to remain silent, then STFU.
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Reality check. 9 times out of ten, you're way better off just being a good little citizen and co-operating. Cops are people, and you get better results by playing nice.
If you get stopped randomly by a cop, just show your ID and tell him where you're going. They can arrest and hold you if they want, and the chances of you suing are pretty low. They have the power, and you don't. The place to assert your rights is in the courtroom, not when you can be arrested and or beaten for acting proud.
Don't be these guys
Reality check? Wow. You don’t know what the fuck you are going on about. Because your experiences have been 9 out of 10 positive you think others need a reality check? I spent two weeks in fucking jail for SHIITAKE MUSHROOMS.
So call a lawyer and get some reparations
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Yeah, no. Glad that it's worked out for you (so far), but it doesn't always work out for everyone. I agree that you shouldn't be aggressive and standoffish, but you sure as fuck should not trust the cops. All they've shown is that they are a gang that believe they're above the law. They're out to protect and serve each other — not us.
Where did I say 'trust'? I will repeat my basic message. Assert your rights in the courtroom and not the street. I know of plenty of instances of cops killing civilians and not spending a minute in court, let alone jail.
I agree handing over your ID is probably good, even in a state where it isn't required. That is unless you're doing something obviously illegal and they don't know yet and you think you can hide your identity somehow, but I doubt it.
However, the right to remain silent and to an attorney are important. The location you're coming from or going to can be used as bullshit reasons to arrest you even if it's not bad. The way you speak can be used to arrest you. The smell of your breath can be used to arrest you.
Basically, hand over your I'd through a crack in the window. Keep your hands on the steering wheel in plain sight. If they ask questions, tell them you won't be answering questions and invoke your right to remain silent, then STFU. You won't win their game. Cooperate with the basic requirements, but don't give them more than the basic information. It's their job to figure out what you were doing and if it was illegal. Don't help them do their job.
In 2015 officer involved homicide averaged four a day, a factor that has only increased in the following years during the rise of Trump-led hate rhetoric. (also not including those covered up by precinct coroners, which was discovered in studies to be routine)
50% of the victims were neither armed nor resisting.
Thus proving my point. Knowing your cop might be ready to kill, is it really wise to start off by quoting the Constitution?
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Especially if you are not white or white passing
No.
You should cooperate with what they order you to do, and you should always be friendly, but never let them search your property without a warrant or probable cause, as they could plant evidence. If you get arrested, comply with all actions they tell you to do, but don't say a single fucking word. On the street, try to stay alive, but once arrested, don't waive your 5th amendment rights. Being a good little citizen will doom you in interviews, and it should never be done.
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I agree with everything above not all cops are nice. A majority probably are nice though but most just want to get to the end of the day without any confrontations although it doesn't hurt to record the conversation for evidence
Where would one find a lawyer for this purpose?
Search for 'criminal lawyers' online. In the US they are allowed to advertise.
They usually cost much?
Depends. If you're involved in anything shady, you might want to ask you associates who they use. In the US, if you get arrested you will be given a Public Defnder. They are usually overworked and underpaid and just looking to make a plea deal. A top flight lawyer can get literally $1,000/hour.
The only shady thing I do is piracy, so I'd hope I wouldn't need the best lawyer? But how would I a lawyer after being pulled over before talking to the police?
You're talking about two different things.
If they knock on your door and ask to talk, you say nothing and call a lawyer.
If you get a traffic stop and you aren't high or carrying contraband, just cooperate, because they probably don't want to waste time hassling you.
I don't know what they are doing about piracy these days, I'd check on another community.
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The proverbial lawyer dog, just be sure not to ask for him.
not talking to the police is extremely important advice, it could really save you a lot of trouble one day.
for the curious, here’s a lawyer explaining it in more detail: https://youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE. (i thought he was a pretty entertaining speaker the first time i watched the video.)
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