this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2023
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Work Reform

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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.

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[–] morgan_423 63 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

If you wanted the younger generation to continue producing workers for the capitalist machine, you should have made sure that potential parents had enough resources to actually maintain a family if they started one.

But yeah, that would have slightly reduced quarterly profits, and we can't have that kind of long-sightedness messing with the short-term returns of our shareholders.

[–] puppetx 12 points 2 years ago

I've been told it's going to trickle down any moment now...

[–] [email protected] 58 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Population growth is a pyramid scheme.

[–] x4740N 18 points 2 years ago (8 children)

Capitalism is a pyramid scheme.

FTFY

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[–] Vorticity 14 points 2 years ago

I'd never actually thought of it that way but, holy shit, that's pretty damned close!

[–] TAG 43 points 2 years ago (5 children)

If only there were people in this world who would want to come to our country . Heck, we could set up a system where employers can post jobs that they have trouble filling and we could match up people outside country who can fill that need. Then, if those people turn out to be decent and moral, we can let them stay in the country permanently.

It is too bad that everyone outside of the country is a foreigner who wants to steal jobs.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Immigrants help out in the short term, but then they and their children realize the same thing that people who already live here do: that wages are too low, and that rent and cost of living is too high to support children.

Plus, corporations can use those immigrants to bust unions and keep wages down and rent prices up. Supply and demand, because we live in an oligrarchic dystopia that doesn't have enough social safety nets to make sure that new workers coming in don't sabotage the ones currently working.

I'm the children of immigrants and hang around with the children of other immigrants, and we're not having children ourselves, or ware waiting until increasingly later ages (minimum 30) because of how expensive it is to live, even without children. It only takes 1 generation to realize that new immigrants will just get stuck in the same rut that non-immigrants are already in.

Adding more people just increases the power of corporations (the real government) to treat workers as disposable objects. It's probably why corporate run governments don't try to stabilize unstable regions, but rather prefer to exploit them until there's a mass migration. More people to use for dangerous labor = more expendables that no one can afford to care about.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Then you're just committing them to taking low paying jobs. Don't you see what is going on? This is what happened after the black plague that ended feudalism. We need to stick to our guns and make them increase wages. Your argument to have immigration solve the baby crisis is EXACTLY what business owners want. They WANT to keep wages low with an infinite influx of people from poor countries because these immigrants won't know they are getting fucked in the ass with low pay.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 years ago

Immigrants deserve a living wage too.

[–] blueskiesoc 11 points 2 years ago (8 children)

"if those people turn out to be decent and moral"

Who decides? Yikes.

[–] Willer 8 points 2 years ago

Rephrase it to: fit for our justice system

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[–] FrowingFostek 9 points 2 years ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 years ago

Show us where there are conditions that would encourage people to start a family.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Hoooooo boyyyy, just wait until the next few generations are up to bat for breeding more worker bees. Population's gonna plummet :)

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[–] mekkagodzilla 22 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They'll kick you and they'll beat you and they'll tell you it's fair…

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[–] lysistrata 21 points 2 years ago (8 children)

Can't think of any particular reason we need to replace the US population. It seems like we've done enough.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 years ago (10 children)

The part I don't understand is why it's important to hit the "replacement level". Wouldn't it be better for the planet if there were fewer people living on it and competing for resources?

[–] seeCseas 39 points 2 years ago

but then the megacorporations can't hit their iNfInItE gRoWtH and we can't keep making the billionaires richer.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

@AnnaPlusPlus

Consider the number of financial instruments that are essentially pyramid schemes built on the assumption of perpetual growth.

[–] MercuryUprising 10 points 2 years ago

Its all of them

[–] AttackBunny 15 points 2 years ago (4 children)

The Ponzi scheme, that is American “social security” (I mean actual social security, but all the rest of the social services too), would collapse if there arent more poor people pumping money into, than are taking out of it. Instead of doing shit like taxing the fuck out of the rich, or AI/robots.

But, yes, it would solve A LOT of the worlds problems if there were less people.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 years ago

If there's less people than jobs it's easier to ask for better wages.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It would be, but the economy was built on perpetual growth schemes.
Don't forget, the economy is here to be served by us, not the other way around!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The economy will crumble if we don't get to replacement levels at least, but it will also crumble, along with everything else if we do. Only way out of this is to change the whole model before it crumbles. But that would mean the rich need to get (willingly) less rich, so I'm not holding out hope...

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 years ago (2 children)

That, and the planet cannot sustain our population with our current systems. Why have a kid when you know their future is doomed?

[–] Navi1101 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I forget where I heard this stat, but the Earth could support 12 billion people if resources were distributed equitably. But, alas, :gestures broadly:

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[–] Yoz 17 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Are baby boomers accusing millennials? Who the fuck is accusing ? I need to know

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[–] query 14 points 2 years ago

Replacement level shouldn't be a goal when the population increases every year. At the very least house prices should be neutral or decreasing relative to wages, if you want more people than you're already getting.

[–] uglytruck 14 points 2 years ago

Wait until the "Let It Rot" movement takes hold worldwide.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 years ago

It's like a bully kicking and beating you blue then complaining you won't just tell the teacher you're fine.

Like no shit. Multiple "once in a generation" recessions, rent pricing people out of places to live, inflation out the ass on basically everything, all the while wages stay stagnant as fuck. That's not even accounting for the absolute climate disaster we're inheriting.

Of course people are both less able to have kids and less inclined to have kids to put through the grinder of life. The very people complaining about this are the ones who helped create and continue on this scenario!

[–] unhappy_meaning 12 points 2 years ago (3 children)
[–] panda_paddle 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Med rent for Chicago area is $1800.

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[–] Evono 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Me and my gf make ends meet ( sometimes not) just by being alive and eat, we go super rarely out and didn't had vacation the last 10 years.

Doesn't help that I got I'll and need to hold now a special food diet till I die which makes mostly everything I can eat like 2x as expensive and it was rough for us before my illness.

[–] RGB3x3 13 points 2 years ago

Easy solution: just don't be born in the first place.

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[–] hurricane 12 points 2 years ago

I am a member of Gen X and I think Millenials are doing the best they can with the shitshow they inherited. Earth needs fewer humans, not more.

[–] x4740N 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

It's fucked that there's even a "replacement level" in the first place

That's so fucking dystopian

Edit: typo

[–] FearTheCron 17 points 2 years ago (9 children)

It's a complex subject that deserves legitimate scientific study. There are known detrimental effects of low fertility rates in a country, but they often take a long time to manifest. However, there are also many examples of horrific consequences of governments trying to affect fertility rate.

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[–] solstice 13 points 2 years ago

..It's a really super basic entry level concept in understanding demographics and populations, plus economics, human geography, migration trends, society in general, etc. There's nothing dystopian about it. (Arguably, the fact that people instantly think such studies are dystopic is itself dystopic.)

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 years ago

"Accused", by who, YPulse? Why the fuck would I care about some shitpost article from a dumpster site?

[–] Clbull 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Millennials and Gen-Z are truly the lost generation.

Imagine still living with parents in your late twenties or even early thirties because you simply cannot afford to even rent your own place. Now imagine that work pays like shit and you are busting your ass working long hours to chase an eternal pipe dream of economic prosperity. You can't even seek psychiatric help for your ailing mental health because it's expensive, inaccessible and oversubscribed.

For a man, being in that situation makes you downright undateable so it's not like you can rely on the joint incomes that couples do either.

And we wonder why toxic masculinity is on the rise...

The rich have done a smash & grab on the economy and made everybody poorer as a result of their own greed. It's a dangerous game.

[–] refugeered 10 points 2 years ago

Hasn't the fertility rate in the US been going down from the 1960s? With immigrations covering the shortfall?

Actually looking at the data. It went down significantly in the 60 and 70s. Then picked up in the 80s, 90s and early 2000. Then started dropping again from 2010.

But one thing to note to seem to be that it never went past replacement rate after 1972. 2.1 is considered to the global number for replacement. So for the last 60 years or so immigration has kept the population growing in absolute terms.

Not making a political statement, I find it weird when people club a huge group of people into one bucket and brand them.

I do not like the terms but sticking to the terms here. It looks like the young boomers had a similar number of children to today and the older boomers were already dropping the number of children they were having.

But Gen-X had a higher rate for some reason.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Looking at the way things have been going for years (decades) now, giving someone a birth would be a huge disservice - they'll inherit a simultaneously more globalized and divided world, a world with technology that has the potential to trivialize sharing knowledge and experience, which is instead use to drive up engagement for the sake of profits, effectively breeding hate groups and echo chambers, a world with economy consisting of bubbles and not-so-careful manipulations, leaving our offspring in a position few would probably envy. Oh, and there's rapid climate change that is being ignored and actively accelerated by the people and other entities that are capable of doing anything about it.

I know more than a few people who have never considered any of the above, and I'm sure many people here know such people as well, so it's more than safe to say that whatever the humanity is facing in the near future, it's nothing similar to extinction through lack of birth.

The future seems really good for certain groups of people, but I doubt my kids could be a part of these groups, or even want to a part of these groups. Not that I would actively indoctrinate them, but I'd imagine that living with me through the years when they're developing and shaping themselves is going to leave its mark regardless.

Maybe I'll regret that decision when it's already too late, of course, but then again, this is not going to be a world-ending decision by no merit.

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[–] HollandJim 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It's not just millennials. I was born 5 years after the end of the Baby Boomers and by the time I was 20 everything was becoming out of reach. Add a energy crisis or two, 40 years of Republican austerity for anyone but themselves, and a few financial crashes We the People ended-up bailing out, and I never got anywhere enough traction to do more than just get by without a mountain of debt. We never outran the entitlement of the Boomer generation.

Good luck Millennials - and I mean it - but the only way out is to get out of the US while you can.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 years ago (2 children)

getting a vasectomy was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

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