Ah the millennial sexual revolution.
But for real, Chinese people are just people but in China. Some of their conditions are different like the gender disparity but many are similar
this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2025
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Experts warn this decline could accelerate China’s demographic and economic challenges.
I'll say it again. The labor market is a market.
Lower supply ==> higher price.
In the context of the labor market: Fewer workers ==> higher wages. That is good for the workers.
Historical example of: fewer workers -> better conditions. https://historycollection.com/4-reasons-black-death-wasnt-bad/
That's a very interesting read. Thank you.
Old people is where that gets messy. But it's absolutely true
Old people is where that gets messy
... as long as you assume that retirement has to be paid for by the worker's taxes.
Rich taxes would solve the problem well enough, i think.
So so. It still takes a worker out of the market for their care. Which from above is established to be at a premium.
Many commenters also cited the controversial introduction of a divorce cooling-off period in 2021, making them wary of the “easy entry and strict exit” for marriage.
I had missed the introduction of this in 2021.
"The law requires couples who are mutually seeking a divorce to wait for 30 days before formalising it. If the couples don’t show up for two appointments between 30 and 60 days after applying, their application is automatically cancelled."
"In February Chinese media reported fully booked appointment slots in Shenzhen, Shanghai and other cities, with some being sold by scalpers."
That would certainly be a disincentive to get married if you could not get out of it if you needed to.
They reward increasing the number of people who are formally married, rather than the number of stable couples.
Such a wonderful example of misaligned incentives, only a politician could come up with it.
In the great state of Wisconsin, there is a 120 day waiting period after filing and paying the Clerk of the Circuit Court. After the 120 days then you can obtain a date for a final court hearing before it becomes legally accepted
So it could be much worse. It could be Wisconsin
1 year here in Germany lol
Of living separated, though (if you don't have the funds for that disentangling as far as possible will suffice), which is waived in nasty circumstances. You can in principle divorce within minutes of filing if the court has a slow day, can squeeze you in, and you have all your paperwork in order. But the judge will want to see some kind of proof that the marriage actually failed for good, that you can't be reconciled. Oh, if kids are involved it's bound to take a couple of days as the judge will interview every single one of them.
North Carolina, it is a year.
Does Wisconsin require showing up for two or more “appointments” during those 120 days?
Yea from what I can tell, it's the same but worse
First before you even have the wait period you must go to court in order to file for the waiting period to begin. Additionally you have to pay a fee to even begin the wait process
After the 120 days is up, you have a period of time to gather docs and obtain a court date for the final hearing. Failing to prepare during this period or engage the court for the final hearing will likely restart the entire process including waiting another 120 days and having to file and pay the fee with the Circuit Court
I honestly can't tell from the article what "appointment" means but it sure seems synonymous with us having to go to court multiple times to initiate the process and conclude it
If I replace court appearances with appointment to align with the article. Then in WI you have a bare minimum of two appointments. If you have kids or need petitions for support to go through with the motion. You can have up to four appointments. Not acknowledging you may be forced to complete parenting courses before the final hearing is allowed to occur
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Any system is bad when scalping becomes a thing.
There was this experiment with a rat city that showed behavioral changes in large populations. Coupled with lack of child and aged care in China, completely unsurprising that this would happen.
Additionally, when you have digital boyfriends like Love and Deepspace, who can blame the ladies for wanting something low effort and convenient?
There are some rumours about this. A lot of women and their families expect the husband to have a car, house, well paying job and paying a five figure (in USD) bridal price, while preferably be below 30 years. With the economy as it is, few men qualify. It's also expected from a lot of men to give his complete wage to the wife. Government goes along with that, and flavors the women in a divorce. Turns out a lot of guys just say f this, and don't get married anymore.
The men are also very picky. ~~Women outnumber men,~~ (Wrong. Men outnumber women by, like, a lot. Don't ask where I got that from) but they are also looking for a certain age, body type, and background. People are even buying/kidnapping little girls to raise as brides for their sons so they can mold them versus just finding a bride. Half of the time, they don't want the women available. They're too old, too fat, too ugly, divorced, have kids, outspoken, and all the other things that they've been conditioned to dislike. Also, a lot of women have rough married lives over there.
Women also belong to the groom's family in a way. If you "only" have a daughter, you really have one shot (and a clicking clock) for both you and her to pick the "best" family. Society has made it to where a woman is expected to serve her household and handle whatever they throw at her, but then punish them for wanting to pick the cage they're locking themselves into. Like, yeah, if it's super hard to get divorced, let alone marry again, and the man/family I'm marrying has a lot of power over me, and I'll be under the households thumb, I'm going to at least make sure I'm take care of. If their society was more equal, I think they'd be able to marry more for love/desire/want than security. But women over there don't get a lot of agency so they take it where they can.
Bith sides are saying "fuck it." Men don't want to be wage slaves and women don't want to be indentured bang maids.
If their society was more equal, I think they’d be able to marry more for love/desire/want than security.
They'd have that possibility, but in at lot of western countries where that possibility is larger marriage rates are lower than in China.
That's true. But I think that idea kind of... Lingers over a lot of western countries. Like you said, a lot of women have it baked in that whoever they marry needs to be daddy 2.0, but I think some of that comes from the fear of "messing up." Not that divorced dads are out there dodging 🐈⬛ on the daily, but women get a lot of "You picked the wrong guy, so you deserve it" so they panic about picking the "right" one.
so they panic about picking the “right” one.
One of the talking points is that women, when they can freely choose, very often go for the top 10% of men in terms of looks and income. That means of course there will be a lot of disappointment.
A serious rethinking of a lot of things in society needs to happen. Relationships and children are one part of this.
I think both sides are often looking for the top percent, but with men usually concerned with looks, since women aren't typically raised to be the breadwinner. Just look at memes about men and their ideal women — it's all about how attractive the cashier is, or the prettiest girl at school, etc. There aren’t that many stunning women in the world, and those who are, are aware that for, many men, their value is often based on their appearance — but that value is fleeting before they're "too old." Powerful men don’t usually end up with regular people, and it’s a common trope that once a man settles down, he’ll "upgrade." When men have money and options, they can afford to be picky, often seeking out someone gorgeous, and if there's a deeper connection, that's just a bonus.
Of course, memes aren’t a scientific reflection of reality, but it’s interesting that you rarely see memes like "model vs. woman I vibe with" instead of "pretty woman VS woman I think is prettier."It’s not that men shouldn’t have standards — there are definitely some wild women out there. But I don't think it's as simple as women just chasing the richest, most handsome men for no reason other than greed. For a long time, marriage was a woman’s only form of security — finding someone who could support her, possibly offer freedom, and ensure safety, all while staying within a timeline before she was seen as 'bargain goods.'" I think that mind set still lingers with a lot of women because there are always worse things for a woman than being single. As women gain more financial and societal freedom, they start getting picky because now no one really needs a partner. Women are now free to choose on looks, charm, sexual prowess, like men have in the past, but some women still hold that standard of the man being the main backbone of the house. So now, men have the same standards they put on women, plus the burden they (culturally) have put on themselves by being the head of household and main provider.
I think both sides need a lot of work.
Women outnumber men
Wait, did the topic of the conversation change? Because China absolutely does not have more women than men.
Lord, you're right. Thanks for the fact check.
Without mentioning "China" in your body, I feel like this comment could be pasted under low romance rates happening across a dozen countries.
So neither men nor women want to get married under the currebt circumstances.
Inb4 China stops reporting this. Just like they did with youth unemployment
Or the democracy protests, pre-covid
I had a Chinese colleague who was in a "relationship" with her idol and thought it was way more convenient than a real partner. I am fully ready to see people be openly happy with AI partners and never try to have real partners.
Especially because it's hard to have a social life when you're asked to work 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week, or worse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system
Births are tightly linked to marriage in China, with childbearing out of wedlock discouraged by traditional values and various government regulations.
“Various government regulations”? Damn, dude. Like what? Maybe easing up on those regulations would help the birth rate a bit.
Maybe people should look into human trafficking into "bride" by Chinese with unfortunate women from neighbouring countries.
Even after giving birth to male child, some women are sold to next man in line. Quite a fuckery ignored by CCP.
Well yeah, who wants to put a Chinese kid through what their parents have to live through?
Boost birth rates? Sure.
Boost marriage? Uh why? You can do all the things without a piece of paper.
Being economically leftist doesn't mean you aren't culturally conservative. Births out of wedlock in China and really most of east Asia are exceedingly rare. The household registration system they use to allow families access to things like education and healthcare is tied into marriage certificates.
We need fewer people.
It would be good to back that up with actual arguments.
I thought overpopulation was pretty well known by know. American education system?
It's not overpopulation that is the problem, it's overconsumption of natural resources. Population will not grow indefinitely, see the notion of demographic transition. It would possible to live sustainably with the estimated population peak if we respect consumptions quotas such as the 2 tones of CO2 per year per capita. Most developed country people are far above this though.
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