this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2025
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No Stupid Questions

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Outside of the immediate reach requires you to open an offshore brokerage account; however thanks to FATCA reporting requirements, most banks don't want to deal with you unless you have significant assets under management.

Back when FATCA was first introduced I was working in private wealth management for a bank in Luxembourg, and we decided to terminate all but 3 accounts held by US citizens, all of whom had assets above 700k USD. I believe 500k was the internally communicated cutoff.

Banks in Switzerland now typically require 1M CHF to open new accounts for anyone who isn't onshore (Swiss citizen or resident), Hong Kong, Singapore and Panama also require minimum amounts between 500k to 1M USD. I think Bahamas, Bermudas, Virgin Islands, Caymans and all the other money islands ask for even higher deposits now.

One thing you could consider are the British channel islands (Jersey and Guernsey in particular), since Brexit they've had a bit of an offshore renaissance. HSBC Jersey for example only requires 100k GBP to open offshore accounts (though I didn't check about FATCA requirements since I'm not a US citizen myself).

If all you want is keep smaller amounts outside of the US, you could look into wise.com, revolut and other money transfer services, they allow you to hold different currencies in physical accounts domiciled in other jurisdictions. Read: If you deposit USD and convert it to GBP, AUD or EUR, those funds will be physically stored in UK, Australia and Belgium respectively. Since wise is a British company (revolut as well btw), the US government at least won't have immediate access.

If there are any online brokers that accept US customers with casual portfolio sizes, no idea.

Crypto of course is also an option, but I don't trust it enough as long term asset storage solution.

[–] ccunning 11 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Thank you πŸ™

This is a very helpful jumping off point for further research

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago

Anytime! You could also check some blogs like nomad capitalist and others, they offer solutions like incorporating a ltd. company in Georgia (the country) or Belize and stuff, but that also comes with a host of other requirements, reporting and otherwise.

Depending on your assets, there are also some countries like Grenada for example that come with a citizenship by investment program, where you get a passport if you invest either into government bonds or buy a property that you must hold for a certain number of years. If you'd be a citizen from there and casually forget to tick the box for US citizenship when opening your Hong Kong account, you might just get away with it. (Strictly not legal, though).

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

If your main concern is the US currency or just wanting your money to be out of US-based assets, I believe Interactive Brokers provides a lot of flexibility to move your money between assets and currencies. You're still going to pay taxes and be subject to all US laws.

If your concern is US involvement in your personal financial affairs...good luck. The US has tremendous influence over the global financial system and no legitimate foreign organization is going to work with you unless you have substantial assets. The few countries that do not respect US influence are not particularly trustworthy and trying to do business with them will put you at significant legal risk.

You could also try converting to physical gold, but the US has confiscated gold before, so that's not a sure bet.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

What sort of things qualify as within the reach of the government to you? I would consider the stock market outside of their reach. Bonds are, of course, very much in their reach. You can buy ETF funds that consist of non-US companies. VXUS comes to mind.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (9 children)

No. Absolutely not.

US citizens are tax slaves. No matter where you live in the world, you owe federal tax to the US government every year. You're required to report all of your assets every year. All of your holdings every year.

In fact, US citizens who have foreign Bank accounts, are required to disclose those bank accounts, and the bank is also required to disclose it to the United states. You will find that there are many banks in the world that will not allow US citizens to open accounts because they simply don't want the paperwork

But wait! There's more! If you renounce your citizenship, for tax purposes, you still owe the next 10 years in taxes to the US Federal government. Even though you are no longer a citizen

[–] ccunning 12 points 3 days ago

I’m personally familiar with the reporting and taxation of foreign banks and even foreign earned income.

Dunno why it didn’t occur to me that it would apply to investment/brokerage account's as well πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Good fucking luck on the ten year thing.

[–] ch00f 8 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Fun fact: you also need to report any money you got illegally on like 8z of your 1040. The government wants a cut of your crime money.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That is always so funny to me. "Hi IRS. I stole $10k worth of goods in 2023, but before I could sell them in 2024 the police confiscated them. Do I count this as a loss for 2024 or...?"

[–] ch00f 1 points 1 day ago

The U.S. Supreme Court in Tellier reiterated that the purpose of the tax code was to tax net income, not punish unlawful behavior.

So...yes kind of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_of_illegal_income_in_the_United_States

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Not really. It's a tool to prosecute people who make their living by breaking the law.

... wait ...

AHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAHAHHHHA

[–] ch00f 8 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Not sure what you're getting at, but since you are legally required to pay taxes, and the 5th amendment protects you from self-incrimination, your tax statements are inadmissible in court.

[–] T156 2 points 2 days ago

The Revenue Service would much rather you pay your taxes, even if it was from an illegal activity, rather than just avoid paying them at all, to avoid the risk of prosecution.

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[–] MissJinx 5 points 3 days ago (9 children)

At least being an US citizen is amazing and everyone respects you and wants to be you, right?! .... Right?!!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I mean, better than being stateless and stuck in an airport and no country lets you in... I guess?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

I from Krakozhia, I go New York City, now.

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[–] NeoNachtwaechter 3 points 3 days ago

If you renounce your citizenship, for tax purposes, you still owe the next 10 years in taxes to the US

Wow! Crazy.

Combine that with the observation that so many of them are trying to avoid taxes LOL

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 days ago

Be a billionaire.

[–] acchariya 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Risky, but cryptocurrency. Never a bad idea to diversify a bit but maybe don't put your whole savings there.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

As the current us government is very pro crypto, I'd say this is not only very risky, but you would also be buying into their narrative and possibly be an even greater part of it as it crashes and burns.

That said, you're not wrong.

[–] acchariya 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The government is in it for the pump and dump scam (I can't believe those words fit together now and everyone will know what I mean). I suspect they are indifferent or ignorant about other cryptocurrencies.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

I would be worried that when the scammers in charge dump their holdings, the resulting turmoil will affect other currencies as well. Demand-based markets don't respond well nor rationally to panic.

That said, I also think the whole thing is a ponzi, and my understanding is of course affected by that. But I believe the logic above would apply in either case.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 days ago (17 children)

you can avoid paying earned income taxes altogether by living outside of the US for more than 330 days out of the fiscal year.

this is called foreign earned income exclusion.

investment income is different; investment income is not excluded by the FEIE, only earned income, so you wouldn't be able to avoid paying investment income tax to the US unless you immigrated to to another country.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Important note about this (though I don't know how much you earn): you can only exempt up to 120000 dollar equivalent per year, and you must still file your taxes every year with the American government even if you don't live there. Non-US bank accounts and investments also must be declared, even if you no longer live there.

I'm not American myself, but a colleague of mine is and she has mentioned having trouble with American agencies because some of these points (specifically the bank account point if I remember correctly).

Edit: corrections to my info in comment below.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

i can clarify and correct those points for you up here as well

the max excluded income is variable, so this year it'll be $126,500. the cap is regulated by the irs and goes up each year.

the FEIE(foreign earned income exclusion) form is form 2555, which you fill out with your regular taxes. it's a very simple couple of pages that you fill in the blanks with the dates you were out of the country and your total earned income for the year, usually takes me fifteen minutes.

the declaration of foreign investment you mentioned is called the FBAR, an online form that takes less than a minute to fill out If you have more than 10,000 invested overseas.

If you have more than 10,000 USD invested overseas, you have to annually declare how much and which financial institutions your savings are in via the FBAR.

as long as you take the 10 to 15 minutes to fill out the FEIE, you won't have any problems with the IRS excluding earned income.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

The Russian oligarchs all seemed to think superyatchts with fabrige eggs on board was a good idea, but then they all got seized when Russia invaded Ukraine πŸ˜…

Real Estate in NZ seems to be popular with American oligarchs such as Peter Thiel, didn't seem to work as well for Kim Dotcom though πŸ˜…

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Just in case: avoid 'forex trading' and CFDs, especially with MetaTrader and cTrader terminals.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I’ve also wondered this. Want to move and be vocal but scared of this threat.

[–] ccunning 5 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Finally - someone who gets me 😊

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

well, first you would need to set up a brokerage account outside the US, and move your money over to it…

For now, though, you can invest in an Ex-US ETF, Vanguard has one that is essentially the total world stock index minus US companies. https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/etfs/profile/veu

[–] ccunning 3 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Can a US citizen set up a brokerage outside the U.S.? If so, where?

I’m not talking about investing in foreign companies; I’m talking about where I can keep my money (other than β€œunder the mattress”) that the federal government can’t seize/freeze.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago

Well, they can seize a lot of things because of reciprocal anti-terrorism money laundering agreements with most of the countries you’d want to trust with your money.

resources aimed at wealthy people offshoring their assets might be useful to you

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