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How did the Nazi salute originally become a thing? (self.asklemmy)

submitted 11 hours ago by stoicmaverick to c/asklemmy

14 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I started wondering about this for no particular reason I can think of. Who's idea was it? Was it supposed to be symbolic of something? Did they just start passing out pamphlets at rallies titled: "Forget everything you THINK you know about public greetings!"?

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[–] [email protected] 59 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

As other people have said, it was borrowed from the Italian fascists, who themselves got it from an 18th century painting showing a famous event from Roman history/legend. There's no evidence that it was ever actually used in Ancient or Classical Rome.

Funny side story is that some Nazis and other German nationalists thought it wasn't 'German' enough, so the leading Nazis felt they had to invent an older 'Germanic' tradition to justify its usage. So, it's a fake German tradition that was in fact borrowed from the Italians, who got it from a fake Roman tradition that was actually made up by a French guy.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Sounds like Christianity

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

How are the two related?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Both are mishmash and attributed to how the Romans legacy still fucks with shit

If you are unaware, Christianity was a Jewish sect that became a mainstay religion because of the Roman Emperor Constantine turning the Romans into Christians

[–] davepleasebehave 4 points 7 hours ago

nah man. it was invented by the Flavians as a way to pacify Judea. it just got out of hand. get up to date with the cool new conspiracies.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Long story short, an italian nationalist through an made up interpretation thought it was used io ancient rome, used it in a film and the fascists in italy liked it so started using it. Then the nazis copied them.

[–] WhatAmLemmy 8 points 8 hours ago

Cultural appropriation huh

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

The germans were told than it originated in the Roman Empire, and since they were the modern successors to the Roman Empire they would adopt the Roman salute

There is no evidence of it being used in Rome.

[–] mkwt 11 points 9 hours ago

The German Nazis took the idea from their allies, the Italian fascists.

The United States was doing a similar thing with the Bellamy salute from the 1890s up until they weren't buds with the Nazis any more.

There is art work going back to the 1700s depicting ancient Romans using the salute. Meanwhile, the idea has staying power: I recall that this salute appears in the 2005 HBO series Rome.

So it's an urban legend among classicists that got picked up by several politicians in the early 20th century, and notably the Italian and German fascist movements.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 hours ago

Put yourself back in the day. No TV or internet. Public spectacles were pretty much the only entertainment. Any kind of parade was a big deal. Ever heard the phrase 'get on the band wagon?' On election days the political parties used to have wagons with a band and beer that would drive around town to get people to the polls.

Now look at some old Nazi documentaries. Those masses of people throwing their arms out like that? That looks great.

https://youtu.be/3_VeIf1M0M4

10 minute documentary on Hitler's best propagandist

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

The Bellamy salute was invented in the United States for peaceful purposes. The Nazis stole it (as they did with the swastika and the term Aryan) and applied it to evil. As Nazi symbols, they became more strongly associated with the humanitarian atrocities of that regime than with their original meanings, to the extent that decent people hesitate to use them anymore.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

Someone else said it came from Italy. Is the origin hazy, or rid it get to the Nazis through Italy?

[–] mkwt 2 points 8 hours ago

As best as I can understand, some anonymous person in the early modern period, 1600s-1700s made up this idea that the ancient Romans did this funny salute. It's an urban myth. There's no evidence that real ancient Romans ever used this practice.

Anyhow, the idea floated around for a while; it shows up in paintings in the 1700s. It was picked up by several political movements in the early 20th century, including Bellamy in the United States, and Mussolini, who was a big Romaboo. The Nazis did get the idea from their Italian allies.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

I don't know. James Upham is credited with inventing the Bellamy salute and may have been inspired by the Roman Empire, or more likely by contemporary portrayals of it. Anyway, by 1930, nobody was heiling Caesar that way, but the salute was in use by American schoolchildren. On that basis, I stand by the claim that the Nazis stole it, directly or indirectly, from either the US, the Roman Empire, or Mussolini's Italy. It's a kind of cultural appropriation I find more palatable when done by people who don't then proceed to violently annex most of Europe.