this post was submitted on 19 Jan 2025

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Read the Whole Story of Andy and Proton's Politics Policy Please! Don't Come into conclusion based on the Titles (lemm.ee)

submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/protonprivacy

38 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I am shocked to see so many posts in Reddit and here mentioning Andy's post.

There are people creating posts with titles like Proton became MAGA, Andy endorsed Republican, and the like..

I am urging everyone, please take a step back and look at the whole story.

I really don't want people to be manipulated by reading only the titles of those posts and come into conclusion of what Proton is doing.

And please think this, "Proton Mail is the world’s largest secure email provider. Swiss, end-to-end encrypted, private, and free." what does the service has to do with politics?

Thank you

top 38 comments

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[–] letsgo2themall 8 points 6 hours ago

yep, read it all. every comment. cancelled my account. I've been with proton for years so I didn't take it lightly.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 hours ago

I read it all and he is still wrong, has no business saying that, and should resign.

I'm done with proton especially if people keep trying to protect him.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 19 hours ago

I think maybe you are the one who only read the title, and not the sweeping generalizations of democrats and republicans.

[–] jaggedrobotpubes 41 points 1 day ago (1 children)

A board member of a privacy company not understanding the basic and obvious fact that fascists and nazis like republicans never want to reign in big tech, but want to hijack it to make it even worse, is sort of like him not knowing what a VPN does.

It's too central to the business for him to be that far away from understanding it, and all of his reasonable responses to the backlash haven't addressed that, which is the entire point. Even if he doesn't do it again, he still has demonstrated a crippling lack of understanding about his business.

[–] Alphane_Moon 70 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I am not American. I don't understand why they need to endorse any US politician, let alone Trump specifically.

The fact that the CEO seems to have a limited understanding of the concept of oligarchy and seems to be buying into pretty low effort "American-style" corruption propaganda schemes is rather worrying.

I subscribe and I generally like the service, but I am going to at least keep in mind that I may need to switch at some point.

[+] [email protected] -12 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (1 children)

No one endorsed Trump. Please read the actual posts that are being referred to. He said Trump's pick for leader of the FTC was a good choice. FTC being the arm of the government charged with anti-trust enforcement. Thus tangentially related to Andy's business where he competes with said monopolies.

[–] Lumisal 5 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Even if we take what you're saying at face value, Trump's FTC pick is a fucking terrible choice too, and very corporate friendly.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

At face value? Do you think there's some sort of subtle messaging here? It is a lie. Plain and simple.

Trump's FTC pick is a fucking terrible choice too

I don't know anything about them but I'm confident they are if they were chosen by Trump. That doesn't make what was said not a blatant fucking lie. Facts matter.

[–] Lumisal 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

You're confident they're a terrible choice? Then that makes what the Proton CEO said a fucking lie, because he's confident the corporate stooge is a great choice.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Contrary to what you may have been told, a disagreement is not the same thing as a lie.

Also that has nothing to do with what we're discussing. We're discussing the lie that Andy endorsed Trump.

[–] Lumisal 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Proton CEO: Trump's FTC pick is great for privacy and reigning in big tech
Trump's FTC pick is a corporate stooge that is corporate friendly
Big Tech is corporate
Therefore, there is no reason for to believe that Trump's FTC pick is good for privacy and reigning in big tech
therefore, Proton CEO lied

Now, let's look at the definition of endorsement:

the act of saying that you approve of or support something or someone

The something in this case is Trump's judgement (which, even you have agreed is terrible), because it is Trump's judgement that picked the person.

Ergo, he is endorsing, although indirectly, Trump, for Trump is the holder of the judgement that was picked.

Now, with all that being said, criticizing the Democrats while also stating Republicans support the little guy (paraphrased) is also a lie - there's plenty of evidence behind this.

Considering Trump picked this guy too:

There's also little excuse to support anything this government does at this point as well.

Apply a bit of critical thinking, if you're willing, and it's not hard to see the Proton CEO supports Trump, even if he walked back his statements.

Now, you're free to keep your business with Proton.

I for one would rather not put my trust in privacy for someone who is holding water for literal fascists, considering how fascists have historically been known to dislike personal privacy of others.

If you'd like to keep being that gullible, go right ahead and spend your money on that.

As for me, I'm making backups already and giving them 3 months to remove the CEO from the position, or I'm cancelling my subscription and moving or, at this point, just hosting my own email locally.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Bro this is some wild mental gymnastics being used to back up a lie, not to mention a wild tangent about a bunch of unrelated stuff, and presumptions about me as a person for doing nothing but pointing out a blatant lie.

Agreeing with a single decision someone makes is not the same thing as endorsing them. It's just not.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Yeah well, my Politics Policy says to not support fascists or people who openly praise fascists if I can help it. So there's that.

what does the service has to do with politics?

They endorsed Trump on an official account and couldn't be arsed to properly apologize.

[+] dukethorion -16 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit either apparently. He praised an appointment selection, not Trump. Nowhere did he say "I support or endorse Trump".

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 hours ago

He made a comment along the lines of the republican being for the small guys..... Which from my foreign opinion is A) blatantly false B) supporting the republicans in general (lead very much by trump)

That seemed to be a generic comment, not just for this case. He never seemed to roll that back in his responses

It all seems very strange for him to say if they are indeed a swiss company.

[–] tensor_nightly69 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Guess Lemmy has astroturfing now. Lovely.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 hours ago

Seriously, who is paying these people to spread lies on Lemmy, of all places?

[–] [email protected] 42 points 2 days ago (1 children)

So what exactly is your point?

I read the articles, saw his tweets, and think that endorsing a fascist politician from the US doesn't sit well for a privacy and freedom of speech endorsing platform.

[+] dukethorion -16 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

He didnt endorse Trump. You should learn to read better.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Dems had a choice between the progressive wing (Bernie Sanders, etc), versus corporate Dems, but in the end money won and constituents lost. Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.

Ok, so he endorsed the republican party and not its de-facto leader. Please explain how that makes a difference?

[–] Gamoc 9 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

Not to mention how deliriously stupid he must be to think republicans in general or trump with Elon at his side specifically would tackle abuses by corporations. Imagine how stupid one must be to think that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 hours ago

Yeah that's completely dumb. Two megalomaniac corporate overlords fighting... Corporate abuse? Sure. No doubt.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 6 hours ago

One's a lie and the other is not. If there's no difference, then why lie about it? Because it is different and you know it, and that's why you lied about it.

[–] njm1314 28 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Frankly I ain't seen that many misleading titles. Boys acting like a dumbass.

[+] [email protected] -10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Honestly, I agree.

I saw Andy’s post. And I’ve seen a bunch of reactions and people proclaiming to cancel their accounts. And I think the negative reactions are all a little strong.

No, I didn’t love Andy’s statement and I certainly don’t support Trump. Yes, he goofed up by using the official proton account to respond. But is Andy or Proton supporting or funding Trump or anyone else in US politics? Do the statements directly affect proton’s operations or services? No? Then how much does this really matter? Does Andy’s statement even tell us that much about his personal politic?

I realize there are many reasons for people to not support Trump, notably minority groups. But using Proton services is a big step removed from “supporting Trump”. Moreover, we don’t have many alternative to proton. There are a few and people should feel free to explore them. But I also don’t know about the political opinions of leaders at those companies. We rarely know this kind of information when spending money.

For me, proton is still a good company, providing good and valuable services, and operating in ways that I support (Swiss non-profit). Andy’s presumed political alignment and dumb comment doesn’t negate all the good stuff.

Edit: Ok! Turns out I didn’t see the “official response”. Ya it’s bad. I dislike this a whole lot more. Apparently, Proton is involved with US politics. IMO, this really does give people a reason to vote with their wallet.

It’s a shame though because they’re right about corporate democrats vs progressive democrats. We (the US) really needed Bernie Sanders and he was thrown out by crappy politics. Still, corporate democrats are a hell of a lot better than fascism.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

The worst part was not Andy's initial posts it was his initial "let me correct the narrative" follow ups where he went on to bash Democrats and call the Republicans the party of the little guy, which is in many ways untruthful.

It's just a really bad look overall. This is basically how it started with us finding out Musk was such a mess too.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Huh. Maybe I didn’t see everything then? I’ll go digging again

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago

Corporate capture of Dems is real. In 2022, we campaigned extensively in the US for anti-trust legislation. Two bills were ready, with bipartisan support. Chuck Schumer (who coincidently has two daughters working as big tech lobbyists) refused to bring the bills for a vote.

At a 2024 event covering antitrust remedies, out of all the invited senators, just a single one showed up - JD Vance.

By working on the front lines of many policy issues, we have seen the shift between Dems and Republicans over the past decade first hand.

Dems had a choice between the progressive wing (Bernie Sanders, etc), versus corporate Dems, but in the end money won and constituents lost.

Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.

I guess it was the initial one where he said the little guy stuff, regardless he doubles down on the partisan politics. This was posted through the official Proton account as well.

Like, he had a bad expense with Chuck and basically nobody including 99% of Republicans showed up to his party ... So clearly we should all just forget all the other problematic stuff that Republicans have done.

I think he doesn't get the part about US politics where most of the time party leaders won't bring bills unless they're major flag flying things (like immigration in the Republican House) or they'll actually pass.

Privacy is neither for either party.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I don't like it either, but got now it's still better than Google that donated $1 million to Trump's inauguration fund.

I hope proton let's Andy go as their CEO since he's damaging their reputation so much.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Yeah... I think I'm going to stay with them but this was a really really dumb stunt he pulled.

Maybe it's just to get favorable treatment for Proton but he's playing with fire especially as many people that value privacy the most are the people that need privacy from the kind of authoritarian strongmen like Trump.

You're kind of scaring away the people that need you the most.

[–] Bahnd 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

My 2¢ on this, I can see why he thinks what he is doing is a good idea. Proton is an EU company thats main product is privacy focused and something that authoritarians dont like. With the recent tiktok curfuffle the US has set a precident for making rulings against foreign companies they dont like (because 47 wants to be authoritarian). To me it seems like he is just taking his turn kissing the ring, and given the [gestures broadly to everything] I dont expect to see many companies refusing to do so.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 18 hours ago

That's my thought, it was directed @ trump. Trump likes being fawned over.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago

Absolutely. It doesn't inspire trust in your customers.