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The singular "they/them/their" has always been an indeterminate pronoun. It's basically a placeholder for a list of people that could be one. Using it to refer to a person you know feels a bit like an insult for some older people.
A bit softer than using "it", but still really impersonal.
In "who left their bag here"'s case, the gender of the person is not known because their identity isn't known, so it doesn't feel strange to use (for us old farts). It can take some effort to retrain your brain to use "they" when it's a single person whose identity is known (speaking from experience as a Gen Xer).
Or the person might just be a transphobic asshole. But I like to think that most just need to educate themselves on using pronouns correctly.
One thing that might help it feel less strange is realising that you already use a grammatically plural pronoun to refer to individuals all the time: the word "you". It's always "you are tall", not "you is tall", same as "we" or "they" instead of "he" or "she". This is because it was historically plural, and "thou" was the singular. Over time we started using the plural to be more polite, and then eventually always using it.
"Thou is tall" sounds weird though.
you already use a grammatically plural pronoun to refer to individuals all the time: the word "you". It's always "you are tall",
This made my brain short circuit lol. Can't believe I never noticed.
That's because "is" is the third person conjugation of Be, not the second. Of course it sounds weird.
"Thou are", and the actually correct "thou art" both feel much more natural.
Yeah but that's because you see it in archaic contexts. How do you feel about 'thou art tall'?
It's "thee is tall."
He, she, thee.
Ahhh, that makes so much more sense.
I’m joining in the “this blew my mind” sentiment and just want to say thanks for sharing this tidbit of info.
I mean, I'm mid 30s, and it took me a long time to internalize "he, she, they" rather than "he, she, it". It's just how they were used when I was growing up. Fortunately, I've had the opportunity to learn and grow. At the end of the day, just speak with respect and make sure you listen as much as, or more than, speak.
I'm 47 and it just came naturally to me. 🤷
"They" made more sense to me than "it" in the first place.
Come to think of it, I still call babies "it" when I don't know the gender all the time though.
I agree. It's hard to put myself back in the old mindset (and I was definitely not supportive of this type of thing back in pre-2014) but I really do think I used to use "his or her" more often than "their", or at least in more formal settings.
I remember on Mark Rosewater's Tumblr blog he ran a Q&A (he is the lead designer of Magic: The Gathering). Someone was asking about cards using "his or her" instead of "their" because not everyone uses he/she pronouns. His response was basically that the reason they did that was because they used the Chicago style guide and it said to use "his or her" when referring to a single person of unknown gender. Basically he said that he understood players have different genders, but it was just a style thing, and that the rules even said something about "his or her" referring to the player (regardless of gender). Since then, I believe Magic cards now use "their", so it's possible Chicago's style guide changed (or at least Wizards' policy did).
Yeah it can take a while to get used to, especially if you knew the person before they changed their pronouns. But the point is it isnt incompatible with our language at all. I think the last panel would be better if it showed the (transphobic) guy and another person and he says "this activist said the craziest thing to me today" and then the second person says "oh yeah, what'd THEY say" because then the 'they' pronoun would be directly referring to the person who wanted to be called 'they' in the first place.
Always liked this one:
But this one is good too...
Not complaining or calling it out but I’ve seen the words in the 2nd applied to sooo many different comics. I think that’s actually kind of great that it’s so flexible 😆
I think it's originally from Red vs Blue
I remember as a kid the teachers were desperately trying to make “he or she” a thing and told us the singular “they” would never be acceptable.
I’m personally glad that movement failed.
looking back, some of my educators were monumentally stupid
OVERSHARING TIME
My body doesn't burp; when I drink something carbonated I have to physically gag myself with something to get the air out. When I was a kid I didn't know this and would get pain in my stomach and didn't understand why.
Coke with my lunch two days in a row resulted in trips to my home room teacher to ask to see the nurse, or go home. My home room teacher crossed her arms and said, "this is the second day in a row you've done this to us," and lectured me about trying to get out of class. I had no way of proving that I was actually in pain. I was angry and scared and couldn't do anything about it. Do not give me the keys to the time machine or there will be violence.
I had a math teacher that was there to coach football… instead of the normal method for balancing equations and such he’d insist you use his wonky play call diagrams.
Which made all the other algebra and trig teachers have re-teach kids coming out of his last class.
Dude was a stereotypical jock that was going to give one of his athletes a free pass for stuffing a friend of mine into a locker. At least until i stuffed the tight end in his locker, instead.
So. How about this. We swap the keys and go all strangers on a train?
While we're oversharing, I had a similar issue:
I had bad asthma as a kid and stress would bring on an asthma attack. An inhaler wasn't enough, I had to go to the nurse and use this loud, ugly machine called a nebulizer. Obviously, one of the most stressful times in school is during a test, so taking a test could easily trigger an attack. Teachers always begrudgingly wrote me a pass to the nurse and made it clear to me that they "knew" I was faking to get out of the test.
Not one of them got the idea into their heads to just make me take the test with me. I would have been able to take it just fine while breathing through the stupid nebulizer. It's not like I enjoyed being hooked up to the damn thing or enjoyed not being able to breathe well.
The good news is I only have to have an inhaler now, which takes care of the asthma when it comes up maybe once or twice a year. And that's only if I have a cold. I hear others are not so lucky.
jesus
that sounds awful.
I love how teachers take it personally that you don't want to do mandatory work lol. anyway. glad you made it out of there.
I had this exact same problem growing up. When I started drinking excessive amounts of beer the pressure became enough to break through, and I finally started burping. That somehow fixed my body completely, and I've been able to burp normally ever since, but my God I'll never forget the pain of being unable to burp. Literally the worst pain of my life
Someone correct me, but "you" was originally plural. The correct way to address a singular person is "thou".
I call it "Schroedinger's pronoun"
Roses are red Violets are blue The singular "they" Pre-dates singular "you"
Thou shalt use proper pronouns and not be lazy recycling plural pronouns in the singular. What next, are thou planing to use a singular "we" like inbred royalty?
When I started interacting with a non-binary person more often, the only reflexive pronoun that came to mind was ‘themselves.’ As in, “They bought themselves a pair of socks for their birthday.” It felt a bit awkward since I couldn’t shake the plural association in my head, but I still used it to be respectful.
Then I remembered that the word ‘themself’ exists and I felt stupid.
Calling people what they ask to be called just doesn't have to be this difficult.
And yes, his royal lordship Starn, the majestic, that goes for you, too. It's fine. We're cool with your chosen name. And I admit, the opera cape absolutely works for you.
And I don't need to know what genitalia most other people are rocking. That's none of my business, unless we're really into each-other, in a very intimate way.
It takes all my willpower not to be get pretty inappropriate every time a government form asks my birth sex:
"Oh! We just met at this office of motor vehicles...I didn't know you felt that way about me! This is so much to process. I admit there's a mutual attraction. Of course I feel it too. I'm delighted that you had a special form made up to ask! I'm flattered! Want to grab dinner, and see where this goes?"
I get irked when someone says “he or she,” especially repeatedly, because the singular “they” is so much easier to hear and read.