this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2024
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[–] Bleys 97 points 1 week ago (15 children)

Cryptocurrencies: higher transaction fees, slower transaction times, and zero consumer protections compared to just using a credit card.

On the other hand, crypto is also terrible for the environment.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That depends entirely on the currency.

Ethereum l2 has way lower (less than a tenth) transaction fees than credit cards and barely has an impact at all on the environment because there is no mining.

And cryptocurrencies do have consumer protection services but no one ever uses them.

More importantly, however, Visa and mastercard collude and boycott japanese anime and manga websites because they think anime and manga promote gender stereotypes, so credit cards can fuck right off.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Credit card fees can actually get quite large as well, they're just hidden from the consumer, and we all pay a higher price because of it.

E.g stripe is 2.9% + $0.30

Even BTC with its current high (not peak high fees) fees is cheaper than CC's when you start getting into a few hundred dollars purchase.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

And many cryptocurrencies have much lower fees. For example, Monero fees tend to be <$0.01, though they can be as high as $1, which is way lower than Bitcoin. Here's a source for Monero transaction fees. And that absolutely tracks for Monero since it's entire purpose is to replicate cash transactions as much as possible.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Don't forget how easy it is to launder money with cryptocurrency.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

Also useless if you don't have electricity or an Internet connection.

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[–] zergtoshi 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But unless you use Monero or other crypto with similarly strong privacy all you do is leave a permanent trail for agencies to investigate.
Using shell companies on the Cayman Islands might be the safer approach.

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[–] dhork 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

All of those points are true for some crypto projects, and untrue for others. There are some projects with their own Blockchain that have ultra-low fees, others with quick transactions, and others whose algorithms are much more environmentally friendly. (There are other projects and tokens they are full-on scams with no redeeming value whatsoever).

And consumer protections are something that can be added to crypto, but out of necessity they involve trusting some entity to arbitrate when protection is required. Cryptocurrency is designed to be trustless, so any protections need to be added on top, like the escrow someone else talked about.

The worst thing that ever happened to crypto was for it's price to balloon. Because improving all those other aspects that make it usable as a currency took a back seat to "wen moon?". OG Bitcoin explicitly rejects improving its energy footprint and fee structure because it sees itself as a Store of Value.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If ur using shitcoins and memecoins sure. If ur using monero then u have significantly lower transaction fees, zero surveillance, zero advertiser tracking, and u cant be debanked or have ur funds frozen.

U still have consumer protections when ur using it as a currency (like intended) cos its not like someone selling something for monero is suddenly above the law just means that if u send ur money to a Nigerian prince u aint getting it back, ohh and u can still use crytpo through a traditional exchange with all of said consumer protections.

Monero transactions are mined every minute and can be verified instantly. To fool this u would either need to make multiple transactions within the span of 1 minute (perfectly timed to the unpredictable timings of the blockchain) or collude with the entire network to delay mining a particular transaction.

The environmental impact of monero is extremely minimal compared to other coins due to it using an algorithm limmited by cpu cache not compute like most currancies. Also crypto is playing a significant role in providing a way to instantly shed load from the grid in responce to the unpredictable nature of renewable energy (most cryto mining operations make more money from selling energy to the minute by minute power grid than they do from mining crypto).

[–] UristMcHolland 4 points 1 week ago (5 children)

And it's not like the traditional banking industry is energy efficient. I would argue that they use more power especially if you consider the lifestyle of banking executives.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The energy usage was criticized not in absolute terms, but in relation to the numbers of transactions. Cryptocurrencies are criticized for consuming more energy while being much lower in volume.

That said, we do need projects like Monero now. At least at the present moment, it is the closest we have to "digital cash".

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

The biggest impact of digital currencies so far has been the obscene, democracy destroying amounts of money crypto bros spent to help get trump and other corrupt lackeys into office.

https://www.citizen.org/article/big-crypto-big-spending-2024/-

This is what the rise of digital currencies is an indicator of, an accelerated process of societal decay.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago

That's a good way to put it. Indicator of accelerated social decay. It truly is.

[–] xodoh74984 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Your anger should be directed toward the Citizens United ruling, which makes these insane contributions possible in the first place.

FWIW, Elon Musk personally donated more than double that $129M to the Trump campaign—more than double the amount that the entire crypto industry has donated in three election cycles, despite there being a $6.6k campaign contribution limit for individuals per candidate per cycle. That limit shouldn't be trivial to bypass, and it should be probably be lower. Or, in some fantasy land where America is something like a democracy, elections would be publicly funded with an equal amount given to each candidate.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 week ago (2 children)

What it means for traditional banking is pretty much nothing, because the majority of the population don't in fact think about currency any differently than they did in the pre-Internet era (and the only way they've changed how they think about banking is that they expect greater convenience and remote access). Crypto is an unsecured investment vehicle, not a currency, because the set of goods and services it can be directly, legally exchanged for is small.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Crypto is an unsecured investment vehicle, not a currency, because the set of goods and services it can be directly, legally exchanged for is small.

And it makes me sad. I really want cryptocurrencies to be useful for actual transactions, because it solves a lot of annoying problems, such as:

  • international cash transfers - e.g. send a cash gift to a friend in another country
  • person-to-person ad-hoc transactions - cash works, but cryptocurrencies can protect personal banking info for cashless transactions
  • avoids network fees - credit/debit card companies charge fees to merchants, and businesses pass that on to customers; cryptocurrencies sidestep that entire system

But yes, the primary use right now of cryptocurrencies is speculation, which is incredibly annoying because that causes fluctuations, which discourages its use as a currency.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

In the early days, we early adopters tried to bring it into circulation. I bought a few beers with it at the bar once. Sadly, it never kindled.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago

I'm still holding out hope. We'll see what happens.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It did kindle. Major companies started accepting it. Then the blocksize wars happened, and the 1mb forever people won through massive censorship and deceit. Then companies stopped accepting it directly as a result of the problems a 1mb limit causes. Now it might never happen again for BTC. The war and the signs leading up to it though spawned other cryptocurrencies, so those might succeed where Bitcoin has failed. We're still suffering from the damage caused though as companies that stopped accepting it are now skeptical of accepting anything else again.

Edit: This is steams post on the matter - https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1464096684955433613

1mb limit -> transaction backlog grows -> higher fees to get in next block -> transactions get delayed from fee volatility and having used the wrong fee which moments ago was the right fee -> now the heavily delayed transaction is the wrong amount due to price volatility and steam and the customer are fucked.

It kindled, and was in turn murdered as it had been intended to be used.

[–] ReluctantMuskrat 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Crypto doesn't avoid network fees. The fees aren't quite as arbitrary and are shared with a broader pool of those providing the network, but the fees are still there providing the incentive for the network transactions to be processed.

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[–] blazera 7 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Id love a digital currency system to bypass banks and credit card companies trying to legislate. But the scaling power consumption of crypto is fundamentally unsustainable

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I don't really see the appeal of currency anarchy in general. Do the proponents of that really think that the power in that space wouldn't be held by what essentially amounts to digital currency warlords (anyone with a lever to apply power and the matching lack of morals to do so)? Not to mention that some regulation of finances are a good thing, it is not as if every currency intervention by central banks is done for bad reasons.

[–] billiam0202 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Do the proponents of that really think that the power in that space wouldn't be held by what essentially amounts to digital currency warlords (anyone with a lever to apply power and the matching lack of morals to do so)?

Why do you think those proponents and digital warlords are separate people?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

I do see that appeal, because we have already seen that surveilled KYC transactions are undesirable in many situations, like if you're making a donation to a dissident. While indeed, crypto cannot scale enough to be a primary method of payment - it still needs to be there as an alternative pathway.

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[–] LibreHans 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] zergtoshi 5 points 1 week ago

...and the hate is strong.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

dictators and their goons don't like central banks and their fiat currency that, no matter how much "money" you have, it's their money

[–] peopleproblems 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Wait what?

No, dictators fucking love central banks and fiat currency.

They like it even better than anything, because a dictator almost always controls the central bank. Plus, the dictator and his buddies almost always own everything, and when you own property you need fiat currency to stay in power. Fiat currency inevitably leads to hyperinflation. With hyperinflation, you get way wealthier owning property than having cash. At that point they don't need the central bank that they control.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

ok.. explain to me why trump and elmo are making such a hard push to switch from dollars to bitcoin?

the federal reserve does whatever tf it wants. have you ever heard of anyone telling them what to do, and them doing it?

unacceptable for trump

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

No, it's because they want to give themselves a bunch of free coin, make it popular, and dump it. They like it because it's easy, they have a large pool of stupid people to draw from, and there's no one to tell them "no". Easier than a stock pump and dump, which as a lot of start up cost and regulations to dodge.

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