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The GPT Era Is Already Ending (www.theatlantic.com)
submitted 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) by [email protected] to c/technology
 

If this is the way to superintelligence, it remains a bizarre one. “This is back to a million monkeys typing for a million years generating the works of Shakespeare,” Emily Bender told me. But OpenAI’s technology effectively crunches those years down to seconds. A company blog boasts that an o1 model scored better than most humans on a recent coding test that allowed participants to submit 50 possible solutions to each problem—but only when o1 was allowed 10,000 submissions instead. No human could come up with that many possibilities in a reasonable length of time, which is exactly the point. To OpenAI, unlimited time and resources are an advantage that its hardware-grounded models have over biology. Not even two weeks after the launch of the o1 preview, the start-up presented plans to build data centers that would each require the power generated by approximately five large nuclear reactors, enough for almost 3 million homes.

https://archive.is/xUJMG

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 2 days ago (3 children)

We're hitting the end of free/cheap innovation. We can't just make a one-time adjustment to training and make a permanent and substantially better product.

What's coming now are conventionally developed applications using LLM tech. o1 is trying to fact-check itself and use better sources.

I'm pretty happy it's slowing down right at this point.

I'd like to see non-profit open systems for education. Let's feed these things textbooks and lectures. Model the teaching after some of our best minds. Give individuals 1:1 time with a system 24x7 that they can just ask whatever they want and as often as they want and have it keep track of what they know and teach them the things that they need to advance. .

[–] [email protected] 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I mean isn't it already that is included in the datasets? It's pretty much a mix of everything.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 12 hours ago

Not everything in the dataset is retrievable. It's very lossy. It's also extremely noisy with a lot of training data that's not education-worthy.

I suspect they'd make a purpose-built model trained mainly on what they actually would want to teach especially from good educators.

[–] victorz 4 points 2 days ago

Amazing idea, holy moly.

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[–] [email protected] 257 points 3 days ago (16 children)

"Shortly thereafter, Altman pronounced “the dawn of the Intelligence Age,” in which AI helps humankind fix the climate and colonize space."

Few things ring quite as blatantly false to me as this asinine claim.

The notion that AI will solve the climate crisis is unbelievably stupid, not because of any theory about what AI may or may not be capable of, but because we already know how to fix the climate crisis!

The problem is that we're putting too much carbon into the air. The solution is to put less carbon into the air. The greatest minds of humanity have been working on this for over a century and the basic answer has never, ever changed.

The problem is that we can't actually convince people to stop putting carbon into air, because that would involve reducing profit margins, and wealthy people don't like that.

Even if Altman unveiled a true AGI tomorrow, one smarter than all of humanity put together, and asked it to solve the climate crisis, it would immediately reply "Stop putting carbon in the air you dumb fucking monkeys." And the billionaires who back Altman would immediately tell him to turn the damn thing off.

[–] scarabic 42 points 3 days ago (1 children)

AI is actively worsening the climate crisis with its obscene compute requirements and concomitant energy use.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 days ago

If I remember correctly, the YT channel ASAPScience said that making 10-15 queries on ChatGPT consumes 500mL of water on cooling down the servers alone. That's how much fresh water is needed to stop the machine from over heating alone.

[–] horse_battery_staple 26 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (10 children)

That's the best case scenario. A more likely response would be to realize that humans need the earth, but AGI needs humans for a short while, and the earth doesn't need humans at all

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 days ago

"In OpenAI’s early tests, scaling o1 showed diminishing returns: Linear improvements on a challenging math exam required exponentially growing computing power."

Sounds like most other drugs, too.

[–] irotsoma 7 points 2 days ago

The monkey's typing and generating Shakespeare is supposed to show the ridiculousness of the concept of infinity. It does not mean it would happen in years, or millions of years, or billions, or trillions, or... So unless the "AI" can move outside the flow of time and take an infinite amount of time and also then has a human or other actual intelligence to review every single result to verify when it comes up with the right one...yeah, not real...this is what happens when we give power to people with no understanding of the problem much less how to solve it. They come up with random ideas from random slivers of information. Maybe in an infinite amount of time a million CEOs could make a longterm profitable company.

[–] homesweethomeMrL 71 points 3 days ago (4 children)

The GPT Era Is Already Ending

Had it begun? Alls I saw was a frenzy of idiot investment cheered on shamelessly by hypocritical hypemen.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 days ago

Oh, I saw a ton of search results feed me to worthless ai generated vomit. It definitely changed things.

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[–] Buffalox 42 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (7 children)

It's a great article IMO, worth the read.

But :

“This is back to a million monkeys typing for a million years generating the works of Shakespeare,”

This is such a stupid analogy, the chances for said monkeys to just match a single page any full page accidentally is so slim, it's practically zero.
To just type a simple word like "stupid" which is a 6 letter word, and there are 25⁶ combinations of letters to write it, which is 244140625 combinations for that single simple word!
A page has about 2000 letters = 7,58607870346737857223e+2795 combinations. And that's disregarding punctuation and capital letters and special charecters and numbers.
A million monkeys times a million years times 365 days times 24 hours times 60 minutes times 60 seconds times 10 random typos per second is only 315360000000000000000 or 3.15e+20 combinations assuming none are repaeated. That's only 21 digits, making it 2775 digits short of creating a single page even once.

I'm so sick of seeing this analogy, because it is missing the point by an insane margin. It is extremely misleading, and completely misrepresenting getting something very complex right by chance.

To generate a work of Shakespeare by chance is impossible in the lifespan of this universe. The mathematical likelihood is so staggeringly low that it's considered impossible by AFAIK any scientific and mathematical standard.

[–] pyre 28 points 3 days ago (16 children)

the actual analog isn't a million monkeys. you only need one monkey. but it's for an infinite amount of time. the probability isn't practically zero, it's one. that's how infinity works. not only will it happen, but it will happen again, infinitely many times.

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[–] Couldbealeotard 25 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

The quote is misquoting the analogy. It is an infinite number of monkeys.

The point of the analogy is about randomness and infinity. Any page of gibberish is equally as likely as a word perfect page of Shakespeare given equal weighting to the entry if characters. There are factors introduced with the behaviours of monkeys and placement of keys, but I don't think that is the point of the analogy.

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[–] werefreeatlast 10 points 3 days ago

I hear you. My fucking dog keeps barking up stupid Mexican novellas and Korean pop. C'mon Rosco! Go get me the stick buddy! The stick! No! C'mon! The cat didn't kill your father and then betray you for the chicken!!! Nobody likes your little dance that you do either, you do it because you sick in the brain for the Korean Ladies! Get otta here!

[–] Eranziel 2 points 2 days ago

Don't look for statistical precision in analogies. That's why it's called an analogy, not a calculation.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago (3 children)

In the meantime weasel programs are very effective, and a better, if less known metaphor.

Sadly the monkeys thought experiment is a much more well known example.

Irrelevant nerd thought, back in the early nineties, my game development company was Monkey Mindworks based on a joke our (one) programmer made about his method of typing gibberish into the editor and then clearing the parts that didn't resemble C# code.

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[–] surph_ninja 8 points 2 days ago (2 children)

People writing off AI because it isn’t fully replacing humans. Sounds like writing off calculators because they can’t work without human input.

Used correctly and in the right context, it can still significantly increase productivity.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Except it has gotten progressively worse as a product due to misuse, corporate censorship of the engine and the dataset feeding itself.

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[–] Eranziel 3 points 2 days ago (3 children)

No, this is the equivalent of writing off calculators if they required as much power as a city block. There are some applications for LLMs, but if they cost this much power, they're doing far more harm than good.

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[–] NocturnalMorning 67 points 3 days ago (19 children)

How is it useful to type millions of solutions out that are wrong to come up with the right one? That only works on a research project when youre searching for patterns. If you are trying to code, it needs to be right the first time every time it's run, especially if it's in a production environment.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It's not.

But lying lets them defraud more investors.

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[–] randon31415 5 points 2 days ago

I had a bunch of roofers hammering nails in with hammers.

I bought a bunch of nail guns and then fired all the roofers. Now less roofing is being done! It is the end to the Era of nail guns! Everyone should just go back to hammers.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 3 days ago (6 children)

I’ve been playing around with AI a lot lately for work purposes. A neat trick llms like OpenAI have pushed onto the scene is the ability for a large language model to “answer questions” on a dataset of files. This is done by building a rag agent. It’s neat, but I’ve come to two conclusions after about a year of screwing around.

  1. it’s pretty good with words - asking it to summarize multiple documents for example. But it’s still pretty terrible at data. As an example, scanning through an excel file log/export/csv file and asking it to perform a calculation “based on this badge data, how many people and who is in the building right now”. It would be super helpful to get answers to those types of questions-but haven’t found any tool or combinations of models that can do it accurately even most of the time. I think this is exactly what happened to spotify wrapped this year - instead of doing the data analysis, they tried to have an llm/rag agent do it - and it’s hallucinating.
  2. these models can be run locally and just about as fast. Ya it takes some nerd power to set these up now - but it’s only a short matter of time before it’s as simple as installing a program. I can’t imagine how these companies like ChatGPT are going to survive.
[–] [email protected] 47 points 3 days ago (2 children)

This is exactly how we use LLMs at work... LLM is trained on our work data so it can answer questions about meeting notes from 5 years ago or something. There are a few geniunely helpful use cases like this amongst a sea of hype and mania. I wish lemmy would understand this instead of having just a blanket policy of hate on everything AI

the spotify thing is so stupid... There is simply no use case here for AI. Just spit back some numbers from my listening history like in the past. No need to have AI commentary and hallucination

The even more infuriating part of all this is that i can think of ways that AI/ML (not necesarily LLMs) could actually be really useful for spotify. Like tagging genres, styles, instruments, etc.... "Spotify, find me all songs by X with Y instrument in them..."

[–] [email protected] 44 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

The problem is that the actual use cases (which are still incredibly unreliable) don't justify even 1% of the investment or energy usage the market is spending on them. (Also, as you mentioned, there are actual approaches that are useful that aren't LLMs that are being starved by the stupid attempt at a magic bullet.)

It's hard to be positive about a simple, moderately useful technology when every person making money from it is lying through their teeth.

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[–] nulluser 51 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (23 children)

a million monkeys typing for a million years generating the works of Shakespeare

FFS, it's one monkey and infinite years. This is the second time I've seen someone make this mistake in an AI article in the past month or so.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

FFS, it’s one monkey and infinite years.

it is definitely not that long. we already had a monkey generating works of shakespeare. its name was shakespeare and it did not take longer than ~60 million years

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yesterday, alongside the release of the full o1, OpenAI announced a new premium tier of subscription to ChatGPT that enables users, for $200 a month (10 times the price of the current paid tier), to access a version of o1 that consumes even more computing power—money buys intelligence.

We poors are going to have to organize and make best use of our human intelligence to form an effective resistance against corporate rule. Or we can see where this is going.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The thing I'm heartened by is that there is a fundamental misunderstanding of LLMs among the MBA/"leadership" group. They actually think these models are intelligent. I've heard people say, "Well, just ask the AI," meaning asking ChatGPT. Anyone who actually does that and thinks they have a leg up are insane and kidding themselves. If they outsource their thinking and coding to an LLM, they might start getting ahead quickly, but they will then fall behind just as quickly because the quality will be middling at best. They don't understand how to best use the technology, and they will end up hanging themselves with it.

At the end of the day, all AI is just stupid number tricks. They're very fancy, impressive number tricks, but it's just a number trick that just happens to be useful. Solely relying on AI will lead to the downfall of an organization.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 days ago (4 children)

If they outsource their thinking and coding to an LLM, they might start getting ahead quickly

As a programmer I have yet to see evidence that LLMs can even achieve that. So far everything they product is a mess that needs significant effort to fix before it even does what was originally asked of the LLM unless we are talking about programs that have literally been written already thousands of times (like Hello World or Fibonacci generators,...).

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[–] errer 23 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Full article:

This week, openai launchedwhat its chief executive, Sam Altman, called “the smartest model in the world”—a generative-AI program whose capabilities are supposedly far greater, and more closely approximate how humans think, than those of any such software preceding it. The start-up has been building toward this moment since September 12, a day that, in OpenAI’s telling, set the world on a new path toward superintelligence.

That was when the company previewed early versions of a series of AI models, known as o1, constructed with novel methods that the start-up believes will propel its programs to unseen heights. Mark Chen, then OpenAI’s vice president of research, told me a few days later that o1 is fundamentally different from the standard ChatGPT because it can “reason,” a hallmark of human intelligence. Shortly thereafter, Altman pronounced “the dawn of the Intelligence Age,” in which AI helps humankind fix the climate and colonize space. As of yesterday afternoon, the start-up has released the first complete version of o1, with fully fledged reasoning powers, to the public. (The Atlantic recently entered into a corporate partnership with OpenAI.)

On the surface, the start-up’s latest rhetoric sounds just like hype the company has built its $157 billion valuation on. Nobody on the outside knows exactly how OpenAI makes its chatbot technology, and o1 is its most secretive release yet. The mystique draws interest and investment. “It’s a magic trick,” Emily M. Bender, a computational linguist at the University of Washington and prominent critic of the AI industry, recently told me. An average user of o1 might not notice much of a difference between it and the default models powering ChatGPT, such as GPT-4o, another supposedly major update released in May. Although OpenAI marketed that product by invoking its lofty mission—“advancing AI technology and ensuring it is accessible and beneficial to everyone,” as though chatbots were medicine or food—GPT-4o hardly transformed the world.

But with o1, something has shifted. Several independent researchers, while less ecstatic, told me that the program is a notable departure from older models, representing “a completely different ballgame” and “genuine improvement.” Even if these models’ capacities prove not much greater than their predecessors’, the stakes for OpenAI are. The company has recently dealt with a wave of controversies and high-profile departures, and model improvement in the AI industry overall has slowed. Products from different companies have become indistinguishable—ChatGPT has much in common with Anthropic’s Claude, Google’s Gemini, xAI’s Grok—and firms are under mounting pressure to justify the technology’s tremendous costs. Every competitor is scrambling to figure out new ways to advance their products.

Over the past several months, I’ve been trying to discern how OpenAI perceives the future of generative AI. Stretching back to this spring, when OpenAI was eager to promote its efforts around so-called multimodal AI, which works across text, images, and other types of media, I’ve had multiple conversations with OpenAI employees, conducted interviews with external computer and cognitive scientists, and pored over the start-up’s research and announcements. The release of o1, in particular, has provided the clearest glimpse yet at what sort of synthetic “intelligence” the start-up and companies following its lead believe they are building.

The company has been unusually direct that the o1 series is the future: Chen, who has since been promoted to senior vice president of research, told me that OpenAI is now focused on this “new paradigm,” and Altman later wrote that the company is “prioritizing” o1 and its successors. The company believes, or wants its users and investors to believe, that it has found some fresh magic. The GPT era is giving way to the reasoning era.

Last spring, i met mark chen in the renovated mayonnaise factory that now houses OpenAI’s San Francisco headquarters. We had first spoken a few weeks earlier, over Zoom. At the time, he led a team tasked with tearing down “the big roadblocks” standing between OpenAI and artificial general intelligence—a technology smart enough to match or exceed humanity’s brainpower. I wanted to ask him about an idea that had been a driving force behind the entire generative-AI revolution up to that point: the power of prediction.

The large language models powering ChatGPT and other such chatbots “learn” by ingesting unfathomable volumes of text, determining statistical relationships between words and phrases, and using those patterns to predict what word is most likely to come next in a sentence. These programs have improved as they’ve grown—taking on more training data, more computer processors, more electricity—and the most advanced, such as GPT-4o, are now able to draft work memos and write short stories, solve puzzles and summarize spreadsheets. Researchers have extended the premise beyond text: Today’s AI models also predict the grid of adjacent colors that cohere into an image, or the series of frames that blur into a film.

The claim is not just that prediction yields useful products. Chen claims that “prediction leads to understanding”—that to complete a story or paint a portrait, an AI model actually has to discern something fundamental about plot and personality, facial expressions and color theory. Chen noted that a program he designed a few years ago to predict the next pixel in a gridwas able to distinguish dogs, cats, planes, and other sorts of objects. Even earlier, a program that OpenAI trained to predict text in Amazon reviews was able to determine whether a review was positive or negative.

Today’s state-of-the-art models seem to have networks of code that consistently correspond to certain topics, ideas, or entities. In one now-famous example, Anthropic shared research showing that an advanced version of its large language model, Claude, had formed such a network related to the Golden Gate Bridge. That research further suggested that AI models can develop an internal representation of such concepts, and organize their internal “neurons” accordingly—a step that seems to go beyond mere pattern recognition. Claude had a combination of “neurons” that would light up similarly in response to descriptions, mentions, and images of the San Francisco landmark. “This is why everyone’s so bullish on prediction,” Chen told me: In mapping the relationships between words and images, and then forecasting what should logically follow in a sequence of text or pixels, generative AI seems to have demonstrated the ability to understand content.

The pinnacle of the prediction hypothesis might be Sora, a video-generating model that OpenAI announced in February and which conjures clips, more or less, by predicting and outputting a sequence of frames. Bill Peebles and Tim Brooks, Sora’s lead researchers, told me that they hope Sora will create realistic videos by simulating environments and the people moving through them. (Brooks has since left to work on video-generating models at Google DeepMind.) For instance, producing a video of a soccer match might require not just rendering a ball bouncing off cleats, but developing models of physics, tactics, and players’ thought processes. “As long as you can get every piece of information in the world into these models, that should be sufficient for them to build models of physics, for them to learn how to reason like humans,” Peebles told me. Prediction would thus give rise to intelligence. More pragmatically, multimodality may also be simply about the pursuit of data—expanding from all the text on the web to all the photos and videos, as well.

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