this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024

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submitted 20 hours ago by [email protected] to c/microblogmemes

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[–] leadore 1 points 46 minutes ago

Sometimes we all just have to find out, if there's to be any chance of getting them to stop fucking around. 😐

[–] PugJesus 4 points 3 hours ago

Ha ha

Too bad

It's been chosen to fuck around and find out on behalf of our entire society

The innocent, the guilty, doesn't matter. We're all going to find out.

I hope everyone involved in bringing this down on us is happy with themselves. I'm sure most of them will be fine, of course.

[–] LovableSidekick 7 points 8 hours ago

Also there's no opting out if you didn't fucking vote. You can't be complicit in opting out.

[+] LunarVoyager 18 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 7 points 13 hours ago (6 children)

Realistically how likely is secession? Pretty unlikely, right? What's the process like?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Its really unlikely mostly because we'd have to go authoritarian as fuck to get the maga traitors out before they could seriously damage us from within

The Sierra Nevada make a great natural barrier on one side, then the big ass desert to the south, so getting large amounts of anything in once we cut ourselves off would actually be harder than youd think

If we successfully negotiated with Mexico, Canada, or someone to back our asses up we might be able to manage it just off the idea that bombing us to oblivion is a really bad idea for your supply of quite a few crops & your major entertainment for the country as well as the busy ass ports on our shores, and that's before you consider how much the rest of the world would find such a move incredibly distasteful from a "holy shit what did you just do" aspect

All in all if ANY state can successfully pull it off, it's California, but it's not going to happen

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

I live in a rural part of a deep blue Northeast state and have been thinking about this a lot. Most of my surrounding area is predictably liberal college towns but the town next door to me is very MAGA and I have to drive through it to get to the highway. Honestly, I want to know what it takes to get those people to leave so that we can secure and expand a safe haven here...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

There is also "constitutional convention" path to "a better union" (revoking current government). Secession when threatened by TX gets an ok vibe, but the "right wing states rights" gang sees invading California as completely hinged response, if they suggest it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Come and take it, flyovers! War is a drone-making contest now.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

And Trump will be Commander-in-Chief of the US Military.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago

Fun fact: Hitler's involvement in the war was a huge factor in their defeat. He bought his own bullshit.

[–] LovableSidekick 3 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I've thought for a long time that the US will end up as a collection of smaller countries. Not looking forward to the transition period.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

The very sad news is that the most likely owners of those smaller countries will be corporations ala banana republics.

[–] LovableSidekick 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

That would be nothing new. After Bonespurs pretty much disemboweled the Republican Party we really had an opportunity to get a solid progressive wave going. The trick is people have to show up.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

States can not secede from the Union. That was Lincoln's rational for reforming the Union. Since states didn't have the right to leave, they had never left to begin with.

https://www.nps.gov/liho/learn/historyculture/secessiontableofcontents.htm

And before anyone brings it up, Texas cannot secede.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/01/29/texas-secession/

[–] LovableSidekick 6 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (2 children)

"Can't?" States are not supposed to secede. People aren't supposed to commit crimes either, but they do. Some even get away with it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

As we learned from the American Civil War, the southern states were incapable of seceding. However this isn't the question at hand. The above user asked this:

What’s the process like?

There is no such process.

[–] LovableSidekick 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

The outcome of a war 160 years ago has utterly no relation to how a decision to secede would play out today. I use the word "process" in place of "whatever sequence of actions" might occur if states were to assert their intent to separate from the country. "Secession" might not even be an appropriate term - a resolution could be introduced, through all the correct and proper channels, for the United States to dissolve in an organized fashion, as the Soviet Union did in 1991. There's really no point saying any political proposal "can't" happen.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago

My point is the North employed violence in the form of a successful military campaign to maintain the Union. Where the North failed was following up with a re-education campaign to squash southern propaganda, such as the myth of the Lost Cause.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

The only thing that prevented the south from seceding was Lincoln's re-election. Literally.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago

Also, the North's industrialization which allowed the North to outman, outgun, and outrailroad the South.

https://www.nps.gov/articles/industry-and-economy-during-the-civil-war.htm

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago

There is no such process.

There is, it worked once and failed once in our history

Step 1: Declare independence from the other government

Step 2: don't lose the war

Step 2 is the hard part, admittedly

[–] samus12345 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

They can't do it legally without changing the law. Of course, the only laws that will matter soon are those that the GOP supports.

[–] LovableSidekick 3 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

It's not like the DON'T WALK sign at the crosswalk. If a state presented Congress with a demand to secede they would have to address it. Simply telling the state it was illegal wouldn't be enough. The state could take whatever next step they want, the federal government would have to respond, and whatever was going to happen would happen. There's no point speculating about the results, but if a state got to the point of actually starting this sequence rolling, it wouldn't just stop with "sorry no you can't it's illegal."

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

A jaywalker doesn't petition the town council to cross the street illegally. They jaywalk. A state seceding could involve as little as a governor declaring their state left the Union. At that point the ball would be in the Federal Government's court to set the record straight, to clarify that the state in fact did not secede.

[–] LovableSidekick 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

The conversation wouldn't end there. The state would retort to the effect that, "Oh yes we did," and the central theme of the discussion would quickly shift away from proper use of the term "secede" and whether a jaywalker analogy works to what everybody is actually going to do about it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago

The Federal Government's current preferred medium of communication is UAVs. They leave little room for further discussion and semantics.

[–] AngryCommieKender 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

They could divide the state into as many as 5 states just to fuck with the liberal cities and the Senate though.

The only reason I see that as unlikely to happen is that all 5 would want to remain as the remaining state of Texas

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

They can be North Texas, West Texas, Central Texas, East Texas, and South Texas.

[–] Buddahriffic 3 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Texas, More Texas, Still Texas, Great Texas, Greater Texas, I Can't Believe It's Not Texas

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

I like this option. I don't think it's a good option exactly, but I like it.

[–] dejected_warp_core 11 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Pretty unlikely, right?

Very. The last time, warfare was far less asymmetric than it is now. Millions of people would need to be well past the point of "dying for their values and ideals" before that would get traction politically.

What’s the process like?

There literally isn't one, or at least, not an official one; we're not the EU. One spot on a map says "no" and the bigger spot on the map around it says "LOL... oh wait you're serious?" Then they fight.

Also, the optics are very different for a state like California or any other economic powerhouse in the union. These places make up a huge chunk of the country's GDP, so losing them would cost a massive chunk of the tax base. Plus, that would reduce the overall coastline of the remainder. Combined these outcomes are strategically "very bad", further motivating the use of force to counter it.

[–] LovableSidekick 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Secession is a very complex subject. Besides the issues you mentioned there are tons of consequences of using force. The Civil War was over 160 years ago and we still have lingering grudges. How would our wealthy feel about the impacts of another one on their investments? Or on US bond values and the value of the dollar itself? I feel like analyzing the possibilities is far beyond my Econ 101 knowledge, but it seems like resolving a secession issue with negotiation would be vastly preferable to all parties involved than any armed conflict. I think it would come down to how the most influential people thought any outcome would affect them.

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[–] [email protected] 109 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Unfortunately the world often does the fucking around part for you, and you're stuck finding out with them. Sincerely a Remainer being forced to find out on Brexit.

[–] samus12345 10 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Boy, what a reversal we have now. Around when Brexit finally happened, the US kicked Trump out of office. It felt like we were going in the right direction and the UK wasn't. Now the UK has put Labour back in power while we're going all-in on fascism. Fuck. We should have just stuck with the monarchy.

[–] Meron35 4 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Instructions unclear, now the US is installing a new monarchy

[–] samus12345 2 points 1 hour ago

No, not like that!

[–] [email protected] 47 points 18 hours ago (6 children)

Finding out is universal, fucking around is optional.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 17 hours ago (4 children)

My only British friend is apolitical (and a bit of a dumbass, if I'm being honest). What's brexit like for your average Brit? I can't imagine having the right to just move (almost) anywhere in Europe and getting that ripped away from me, but I'll admit, I don't really know any of the other repercussions of leaving the EU.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

It totally ruined a lot of people's lives. They had plans to go work somewhere in Europe maybe even live there. Now they can't do that.

The whole point of the European Union was it was supposed to be a bit like the United States without having to actually form a single nation. All of the countries would effectively act like States in one nation - they even setup Interpol to act like state troopers. Imagine if you suddenly couldn't move between states. Utterly stupid outcome, and 100% predicted.

Just like any government the EU council did do some brain dead things, but that wasn't a good reason to leave.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Imagine if you suddenly couldn't move between states.

This has already become reality for all the women I know that are pregnant or trying to become pregnant.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

In what way?

[–] captainlezbian 6 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

As an American, please don’t give anyone ideas. I really don’t want to need refugee status to go out west.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 13 hours ago

Fellow American, given the cost of living, I feel like I'd need refugee status to get out of the ~~methbelt~~ red states

[–] captainlezbian 7 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I can’t imagine giving that up. As an American I once wanted us to join the shengen as one of my long term political pipe dreams.