this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 97 points 2 months ago (35 children)

This just begs the question

Why do we allow a major embargo of an entire island nation and allow an entire people to live without the proper necessities and resources in order to maintain their nation?

[–] EleventhHour 122 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

President Obama began to ease the embargo restrictions in 2016, allowing for travel and investments. It was Trump, in 2017, who reinstated the embargo in full. Probably just because Obama relaxed it.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Then Biden got into office and uh,

[–] foggy 24 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Hey, too close to election for me to not fervently call out misinformation bullshit like this:

It was The Trump Administration who signed the National Security Presidential Memorandum (NSPM-5)

National Security Presidential Memorandum (NSPM-5): Signed on June 16, 2017, this policy outlined the Trump administration's approach to rolling back aspects of the Cuba normalization process. It directed restrictions on travel, business dealings with Cuban entities controlled by the military, and restrictions on educational and cultural exchanges.

It was Donald Trump who directed the creation of the Cuba Restricted List

The U.S. Department of State, following Trump's directives, created a list of Cuban entities with which direct financial transactions are prohibited. This list largely includes businesses owned by or affiliated with the Cuban military, intelligence, or security services. It was first issued in November 2017 and has been updated several times since.

Has absolutely nothing to do with Biden or his administration. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 months ago (7 children)

I was more pointing out how Biden has done little or nothing to REVERSE Trump's regressions despite having the power to.

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[–] Frozengyro 20 points 2 months ago (4 children)

I think he's implying Biden didn't roll back Trump's policy or try to begin normalization again.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

https://press.un.org/en/2023/ga12552.doc.htm

UN discussion on how damaging the embargo is

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Because the people there didn’t allow US capitalists to exploit them and their resources; because the people started to organize themselves and their resources around public interest; because they were voting in leaders who didn’t allow US elite to exploit them.

And so they must be punished.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The article doesn't specify, but it appears to be a long term fuel issue. They have been trying to cut back for a while now, including with blackouts for various areas, but they finally ran out and/or the demand while it was on just crashed the system.

Restarting an entire grid is not easy either, it usually takes many hours even if you have fuel available.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago
[–] FlyingSquid 6 points 2 months ago (8 children)

I don't get it. How does the failure of one single power plant cripple an island that large?

[–] baldingpudenda 31 points 2 months ago

Here's Practical Engineering explaining how it almost happened in Texas. he also goes into why starting from a black start is so hard

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Article doesn't say, but one plausible scenario:

A big power plant goes down and other plants have to pick up the load. Load exceeds capacity of remaining plants and they shut down (or breakers blow, etc). Repeat.

Power plants also need energy to start up (black start), and if there's no grid energy to power those ancillary systems, or if the power plant doesn't have on-site auxiliary generators to provide black start capability, they're down until they can get power again from elsewhere.

Base load plants (coal, nuclear) don't throttle up and down quickly for changing loads. For quick response, we use peaker plants which are typically natural gas powered turbines and can respond quicker (grid batteries are, thankfully, replacing these in some cases).

That's grossly over-simplified but it's more or less the gist of it.

[–] InverseParallax 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Power plants also need energy to start up (black start), and if there’s no grid energy to power those ancillary systems, or if the power plant doesn’t have on-site auxiliary generators to provide black start capability, they’re down until they can get power again from elsewhere.

This is huge, we have massive drills to make sure we can do this, and idle black start plants for just this purpose alongside almost an entire secondary grid for bootstrapping.

Electricity is expensive and hard as hell.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It trips me out that many of these plants don't have APUs for starting themselves up, or that they were designed in such a way that they require utility power to boot up. Like I understand that black starts could have problems with frequency sync with no point of reference, but I can't imagine that their control system circuits don't have any form of self-powering redundancy built in to their design. Is there any reason for this?

[–] InverseParallax 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

We didn't have digital controls when they were designed, so you couldn't use GPS or atomic clocks to synchronize frequencies, you just needed to have a single source of coordination. Those coils were manually controlled till not long ago.

Now we should be able to use some kind of small gas turbine with a igbt rig for synchronization, much like they do with wind turbines.

People often don't appreciate how far we've come over the past 2 decades, and how utterly manual and brute force we were until very, very recently.

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[–] TriflingToad 6 points 2 months ago

so it's exactly like coal generators in Satisfactory

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Cascade failure maybe? Sudden loss causes other plants to try to pick up slack, overloading one of them, which puts even more pressure on the rest until they all fail?

[–] FlyingSquid 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I'm amazed they don't have redundancies in case of things like this. I guess not.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

It's Cuba. They've been hamstringed by the US embargo for a very long time. I'm amazed they're doing as well as they are. My understanding is that, with the exception of medicine and food, basically anything that touches American soil or American hands (literally or metaphorically) is illegal to officially export to Cuba regardless of the country it's being sold in.

So for an example, any steel made in the US, manufactured for US companies, made using iron from the US, etc, may not be officially sold to Cuba. That doesn't mean a Mexican company can't buy the steel and resell it to Cuba; but it means Cuba potentially has to pay multiple tariffs and pay to have it bounced from the US to at least one other country before it can go to Cuba.

Furthermore, my understanding is that foreign companies with a US presence don't tend to do business with Cuba because the US will put pressure on them to stop doing business with Cuba.

The embargo needs to end. Cuba could have been the US' strange, goofy cousin with weird ideas about government and economy; because it seems like the Cuban government is making a legitimate attempt at a socialistic system. However, US capitalists ruined everything (iirc the embargo didn't start with the cold war, it started because Cuba overthrew the banana republic previously ruling them, which pissed off fruit companies. Said companies then cried to Uncle Sam because their slaves revolted and the US said, "you gotta pay them back for all the fruit they lost, plus interest".)

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'd be more amazed if they where able to build that capacity behind an American blockade

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[–] AbidanYre 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] FlyingSquid 4 points 2 months ago

I would have hoped things had improved in the last 20 years. Apparently they haven't, at least in Cuba.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Electric grids are really tough to get back online from what I've read. Rolling blackouts help keep things online, but if the whole thing goes down at once it's tricky to get all the generators on the same timing for their 60/50 Hz transmission lines.

[–] InverseParallax 4 points 2 months ago

If you keep proactive with rolling blackouts you have a chance, but if you are slacking even a bit all the spinning plates fall at once.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

For a historical analogue check out what happened in Italy on 28. September 2003. One international line in Switzerland sparked to a tree, and got shut down, that caused a cascade where the other lines to France were overheating and getting shut down a few minutes after, and Italy didn't manage to shed enough load in time to keep up their frequency internally, then everything shut off when it drooped low enough. Took them 18 hours afterwards to get the whole grid back online.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

If demand exceeds supply, the whole grid will fail as the voltage/frequency drop trips all sorts of safety systems meant to protect the grid and the devices connected to them. Normally the supply and demand are continually balanced to avoid this.

If a major plant goes offline and you don't shut down equal demand at the same time (usually by disabling entire neighborhoods) then this is the result.

[–] InverseParallax 6 points 2 months ago

That's how power works, you miss your requirements by even a little and you can get cascading failures if you haven't engineered things well and your guys aren't sharp.

Power engineering is not something casual, it's brutal and if you aren't on your toes then your toes will leave black sooty marks where they were.

We spend insane amounts of money keeping things going, Cuba probably cut corners and couldn't do upgrades due to sanctions/embargoes.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003

The blackout's proximate cause was a software bug in the alarm system at the control room of FirstEnergy, which rendered operators unaware of the need to redistribute load after overloaded transmission lines drooped into foliage. What should have been a manageable local blackout cascaded into the collapse of much of the Northeast regional electricity distribution system.

Not a plant but another example of something that should have been small causing massive outages. From what I know talking to people who've worked for the province's grid operator, it's a massive job to keep everything going.

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