this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2024

155 points (95.3% liked)

Today I Learned

17696 readers

1771 users here now

What did you learn today? Share it with us!

We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)

Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.

** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**

Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.

Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.

Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.

Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.

Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.

If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.

For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.

Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.

Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.

Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.

Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.

Partnered Communities

You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.

Community Moderation

For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

155

TIL that in Sparta, after the wedding, brides would have their hair cut short and be dressed in men's clothing so that they would appear less threatening to their groom during the wedding night. (en.wikipedia.org)

submitted 2 months ago by Don_Dickle to c/til

27 comments fedilink hide all child comments

all 30 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] wjrii 99 points 2 months ago (2 children)

So this claim seems well sourced, but I had to look it up because my bullshit detector always perks up when Sparta is discussed.

The surviving written sources are limited and largely from a non-Spartan viewpoint. Anton Powell wrote that to say the written sources are "'not without problems'... as an understatement would be hard to beat".

By Roman times, when a more organized and centralized polity was creating a pan-Mediterranean culture that had a lot to do with which works ended up preserved, Sparta was pretty much a theme park shell of its former self, and its former self is probably not so amazing anyway. In particular, their unusually thorough and unbalanced slave economy is overlooked when lionizing them, and their military record is rather underwhelming, possibly due to the incredible inefficiencies, even by ancient Greek standards, of said slave economy.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They really do get a lot more reverence today than they deserve. Like, I get most historical cultures don't stack up the best with modern moral standards applied to them, but like, based on what I understand about Sparta, if the place were somehow transplanted through history to the modern day as it's own country, it would probably end up some sanctioned pariah state out of sheer disgust for how it treats it's own citizenry and handles it's foreign diplomacy.

[–] I_Has_A_Hat 47 points 2 months ago (3 children)

A highly militaristic society that isn't all that strong compared to other militaries, that treats it's people and outsiders poorly, and has glaringly obvious issues with its governance, all with an air of superiority and an emphasis on never appearing weak?

...Was Sparta just North Korea?

[–] HappycamperNZ 8 points 2 months ago

Comes with intestinal parasites and doesn't speak English.

The evidence just keeps adding up

[–] ChapulinColorado 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Thought you were gonna say Russia n.g.l. (based on what’s been seen in the recent military special operation)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

the description would work just fine for the USA too

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

The USA doesn't have a slave caste making up 80% of its population that it ritually declares war on every year. They aren't quite as bad as Sparta.

Yet.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The fact that folks vote you down without engaging speaks volumes. The npc angry meme comes to mind.

From an outside perspective the US definitely ticks those boxes. Maybe someone can explain what doesnt.

[–] Demdaru 9 points 2 months ago

Nobody wants to feed the troll, simple. But eh.

Highly militaristic Check
Isn't that strong Eh, just beating every other contestant with either tech, experience or both.
Treats it's people and outsider poorly MMMMM, okay, for EU standards yeah, but for global ones? They're mid.
Obvious problems with governance . . . nnnnnyeaah...
Air of superiority Yeah. Except not really. Ya all are dropping it more and more as time goes.
Never appearing weak It's justified tho.

So overall, yeah, 3,5/6. 0,5 for treating people part. Defo not sparta...i mean, if they vote Trump and I'll have to update this but eh.

[–] Don_Dickle 19 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Now you make me question the movie 300 and what I learned in grade school.

[–] Snowclone 20 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

300 is entirely fantasy, the motivation of the story is that Sparta had a long important holiday that always landed on the same predictable days, and if anyone attacked their allies the attack was going to be at the start of that long holiday so that one army didn't show up, and they missed out on some very important battles, so at some point when this happened again, they sent out 300 men to do something for the war effort, and holding a bottle neck while a storm wiped out most of the threat was heavily publicized to counter the 'fucking Spartans and their several days long fucking holiday that isn't even on a lunar cycle so everyone fucking know exactly when it happens never Zesu bolted ass showing up with their little skirts and manly open mouth kissing army' kind of sentiment.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You’re allowed to use periods you know.

[–] Snowclone 1 points 2 months ago

Proofreading is the last retreat of cowards!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Madness?

[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Surrrre that’s the reason

[–] apfelwoiSchoppen 21 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You should read the article, being bi was very much a part of their culture and not a trivial joke.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I was being sarcastic but I was in no way whatsoever joking

[–] apfelwoiSchoppen 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

OK, no harm. It very much read as a snide joke.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Ha, yeah, I get it. “lol they gay” is usually a joke. In this case it is not, as you mentioned:

In Sparta [...] the cropping of the bride’s hair and transvestism likely aimed to transform her temporarily into an adolescent Spartan boy – a less threatening figure to the groom, who probably had made his own transition to adulthood via a close emotional and sexual relationship with an older male

It is just what was up

[–] VelvetStorm 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

So the adult men fucked little boys and that was seen as a normal and good thing?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The Greeks invented orgies, the Romans came up with the idea of inviting women.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

"Women? Ugh, take them away!" - The Greeks in BC times

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Either tomboy culture was steering or that they weren't used to being with women

[–] Rakonat 4 points 2 months ago

Well they are Greek.