this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2024
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Have you went down any internet rabbit holes only to come out with a deep set existential crisis? If so, what are they?

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[–] indepndnt 52 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It's somewhat specific to someone with my type of background; namely growing up in a family of young-Earth creationist, fundamentalist Christians, and learning that things like science and evolution are lies from Satan.

At some point curiosity got the better of me and I realized I didn't even know what evolution even is, so I read up a bit about it. Then a bit more. You know, this actually kind of makes sense. Eventually the rabbit hole led to the existence of God. I remember watching a bunch of debates and expecting the most learned representatives of our Christian tradition to make some really great arguments. And... they... never... did.

[–] moistclump 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Same experience. Right down to debate watching hoping for something to hang on to!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

I went from a fundamentalist community to full blown antitheist to agnostic (after studying religious philosophy in college) to pagan.

My experience teaches me there are many, many great arguments for the existence of the gods. You just have to accept that gods do not fit the conception the christian fundamentalists have: there is no sentient entity in existence that is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent (towards humanity).

If, and when, you are willing to relax your criteria for what constitutes a god (mine are personifications of the forces of nature) and what your relationship with such a being should look like (I respect them, but worship no one), you too will realize that the "either god is perfect in every way and should be worshipped without a shred of skepticism or there is no god and everything is doomed" mindset is just another arifact of christian zealotry and brainwashing.

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[–] Protoknuckles 35 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I'm taking a grad school course about the psychology of decision making, and the science behind how we process and use data hurts my mind and soul. At some level, we are biological logic machines. The implications of that terrify me.

[–] scemmy 10 points 3 months ago

Interested in reading more, can you mention the textbook(s) your course uses?

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (16 children)

Free will.

It's hard to accept, but free will is just not compatible with reality. It's like geocentrism. It seems obvious on its face because of our limited perspective, but nothing else in the universe makes sense if it's true. We live in a mechanistic universe and cause and effect doesn't suddenly stop when the atoms are part of a human.

I freaked out for about a week once I came to realize how much of our society is based on a scientific impossibility. Redesigning justice, ethics, healthcare, the very concept of blame, etc. to account for this is a daunting fucking prospect.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Subatomic particles act in insane ways that are absolutely not mechanical or predictible. A very limited size of object behaves "normally". I think believing that the universe mostly acts like our everyday objects is the skewed perspective.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Our current understanding is not enough to state that with confidence. We used to be so confident with classical mechanics and even claims that physics is almost complete. God knows how long our current probabilistic model will last before we find another better model. It may be probabilistic, or it may not.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

And what if its a pseudorandom generator all the way down

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Here's the thing, though: it's doesn't matter if free will is real or not.

[–] Weirdmusic 6 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Well, it does if our entire justice system is based around the concept of free will.

[–] Jimmyeatsausage 13 points 3 months ago (4 children)

But we never could have designed it any other way (assuming no free will)

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[–] Feathercrown 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Why do people always stop one step too short?

If there is no free will, the concepts of justice, blame, etc. still survive funtionally intact. If "chemical you" commits a crime, "you" are only not responsible if "you" is a metaphysical entity separate from (and that cannot control) the chemical you. But there's no evidence that "you" aren't simply the "chemical you", and therefore fully responsible for your crimes. If "you" are a metaphysical entity separate from the chemical you, then "you" do actually have free will.

This is only not true if the metaphysical you exists but cannot control the chemical you, which seems reasonable but like... you can move your arm right now, by willing it to be so. Either metaphysical you has free will, or your conscious experience is the chemical you. Either way, your conscious experience is either the same as or commands your physical form, and therefore is responsible for the actions that you take, and can be blamed and given justice.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

There's a really good Kurzgesagt (in a nutshell) about this topic. (Also their videos are excellent in general, highly recommend their YouTube channel).

My thoughts on this are: we may not have free will but it still feels like we make choices so I will continue to choose to do things which matters to me and enjoy my time in the universe.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

I dislike the conception of Free Will that asserts will is only free if it is not deterministic. Any system dictated by the law of Cause and Effect will necessarily be deterministic, given knowledge of First Cause. Together, those premises imply that the only way to be truly free is in a chaotic universe, i.e. one without a relationship between Cause and Effect, where decisions are completely arbitrary and have no predictable outcome anyway.

The fact of the matter is that you're already free to do whatever you want, even if that's shooting yourself in the foot or refusing the choice entirely and running off to live in the woods, and that's freedom enough for all practical meanings of the word.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Toxoplasma Gondii - a parasite bred through cat poop. It is extremely common, easily spread through undercooked food (especially meat). It can affect your mental state to engage in riskier and more self destructive behaviors. Testing for Toxoplasma Gondii is not standard, but it is believed that 10-15% of the US population is infected with the parasite at any given time.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago

That's actually my favorite parasite! Toxo really wants to live inside a cat's digestive tract, so much so that, when a rodent gets it in their blood, the baby toxos produce cysts in the brain (and liver and muscles) that hypnotize the rat into being attracted to cat poop. This leads to the rat hanging around where cats poop, and therefore getting eaten by the cat, and ending up happily back inside the cat's GI tract.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

Oh I've been there too! Read about it while planning my pregnancy. It made me feel so paranoic that I got the test done twice just in case. I never got sick with it, but paranoia was a removed.

Since then I have gotten mental health help to deal with anxiety etc.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 3 months ago (4 children)

The universe. The Big bang, time, quantum mechanics. Is our universe infinite? Is it the only universe? Did the Big bang start ours and will it end with a big crunch and will that collapse just cause a big bang that repeats and if so what iteration of that cycle do you suppose we are in? And does each universe behave the same, similar laws and physics and such? Stars, planets, etc?

Deconstructing from religion. It was a lot. I'm better now, but being stuck in it all was overwhelming and was like being in an existential crisis every day until it ended. I just went along with it and kept it all inside for decades and it wasn't fun.

Consciousness and our sense of self. Is consciousness an illusion? What even is "me"? It includes all the gut bacteria and mitochondria with different DNA than us and our brains are these amazing pattern recognition machines that also have abysmal memory storage and recall, but can notice the tiniest of nuance sometimes, but also can't remember where we put the thing we were just holding 2 minutes ago. And all the while our brain is confidently telling us "I am me" and is processing all the inputs like sights and sounds and interpreting all that into what we think we see and what we think we heard. But did we? How would we know if upon seeing the color red our brain interprets that as blue and we confidently declare we see red.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (3 children)

In the old Star Wars Expanded Universe, there was mention of a Shawken Device which, if operable, could destroy the universe.

This has led me to conclude that the universe probably isn't infinite.

In an infinite universe, all possible things should be happening at the same time. This would necessarily mean that someone invented a device/mechanism/reaction that could destroy the universe, and successfully activated it, thus ending the universe.

There are only two possible conclusions that I can draw from this thought experiment, which are not mutually exclusive:

  1. The universe is not infinite, and/or
  2. It is not possible to destroy the universe.
[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Relativity proved that time isn't a constant thing where all things occur at "the present". You can have situations where person 1 sees an event happen as A B and person 2 sees that same event happen as B A.

That means time isn't some absolute framework that reality exists in, but something more like a property of matter or space or something.

Also the speed of light seems to be applicable here. Or more accurately, the speed at which events propagate through space. If you pushed a button to end the universe wouldn't that event only go at light speed out in all directions? So maybe the button has been pushed (maybe an infinite number of times too) and all the shockwaves just haven't gotten here yet.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

In an infinite universe, all possible things should be happening at the same time

Misunderstanding of infinity.

E.g.: 1.101100111000... is an infinitely long number, yet it will never be bigger than 1.2 nor smaller than 1.1, it does not contain all digits, nor does it contain all possible combinations of 0s and 1s.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)
  1. The universe is almost definitely not infiinte, but we will never be able to prove it.
  2. Have you heard of vacuum decay?
[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

Have you heard of vacuum decay?

I know, right? They barely make consumer grade products that last nowadays.

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[–] BilboBargains 19 points 3 months ago

I went down the psychology rabbit hole and emerged with autism.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 months ago (6 children)

The Dark Forest Hypothesis. A very compelling answer to the Fermi paradox: If the universe is this vast and life surely must have developed over and over all around us, how come we never found anyone?

If two civilizations ever met, chances are incredibly slim that they were comparably or even similarly developed at this exact moment in time. Think about a modern army traveling back in time 400 years and fighting a group of swordmen with horses; the medieval people would be so overwhelmed it would barely classify as a fight, and that's just with a few hundred years of difference in technological progress. The random difference between species from different planets and systems would be far, far greater. So if two of them would meet, one of them would very likely be to the other as a god to an ant.

The universe might be brimming with life, but everyone who gets this far must be aware that half of them could wipe you out like ants, the other half could be as indomitable as a god. Cue the dark forest metaphor: There's prey and there's predators. We don't know which one we are in each instance, or how many of each are out there. But how could a first contact protocoll look like in such a competetive (and very likely deadly unfair) environment?

In the dark forest only two types of species can survive: Those that attack. And those who hide.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I just think:

how many living species have been on earth? Millions probably

How many of those species are intelligent? 1

How long have this intelligent species been around? Nothing at a cosmic timescale.

How many of this intelligent species have become "interstellar"? 0

I don't think those numbers can be extrapolate, even to the observable universe, to ensure that there are any species capable of interestellar travel around. Living species and even intelligent ones? Maybe. But a long lasting inteligent and interestellar species? We are not an example of that, so we have 0 examples to extrapolate. Only our wishful thinking that humanity will last longer and keep progressing, but that is just a hope, not real yet.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

This is a fascinating one.

Some things to consider, a toddler can easily defeat a baby but a 40 and 45 year old are evenly matched. There's also the question of how much is there to learn, at some point the tech tree is pretty much done - iron is much stronger than brass but maybe light-speed heavy plasma guns are pretty much maxed out and physics simply doesn't allow more.

This could result in interesting stalemates, a natural limit to the size of conflicts for example if it's possible to maintain a defensive sphere that can withstand the maximum level of abuse that a circle of attackers can provide - any weapons platform too far back being unable to increase the force applied. We might get technologically perfect civilizations effectively combined to bubbles of influence around their power sources.

What is possible is that at a certain level of tech we discover how to tap into the universal internet, aliens give us the rest of the answers to physics and philosophy then show us how to build VR gear so we can explore the cosmos in perfect VR and no one ever needs to build Dyson spheres or hyperwarp megastructures because we can do anything with a dark matter powered computanium smart phone.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

Give it time, we started emitting radio 80 years ago. When aliens look our way, they probably still see the dinosaurs or something.

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[–] TootSweet 16 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Buddhism.

(I hope any Buddhists here find that as hilarious as I do.)

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[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The Mandela Effect caused by running the Large Hadron Collider for the first time, shifting us into an alternate universe.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I thought that was Harambe. Or was he the first sign of deviation?

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart 9 points 3 months ago

Harambe was 2016, we shifted in 2010.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago (2 children)

GΓΆdel Incompleteness Theorem and the boundary of our understanding of the universe.

[–] moistclump 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

So modern math is proven to be incomplete and we cannot prove that it is consistent either. Those 2 words, incomplete and consistent have a very technical meaning here.

The first is that there is a statement in modern mathematics, which is true, but cannot be proven. And even if we expand it, there will always be such a statement. Hence, incomplete.

And the second, we cannot have a system that proves everything as that system will be inconsistent. Basically if a system can prove everything, then we can easily prove 1=1 AND 1 β‰  1. If both are proven, then we lose meaning since there is no "truth". But a consistent system cannot prove its self consistency. Ergo, with modern math, we cannot know if math is consistent.

Now, the problem lies in that we use math to model our perceived reality. It means there is a limit to human knowledge, or put simply, there will be something in the universe that we may never know the answer to.

My favorite is the busy beaver function. There exist, at a certain number, that our modern math cannot make any meaningful statement about the function. Here is a great video about it. (youtube link warning). But you can also look at veritasium video for more in depth explanations.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Roko's Basilisk / Pascal's Wager scared me for a little while. Then I realized it was stupid.

Also you can invert Pascal's Wager and argue that god could not want to be worshipped, and worshipping a god result in punishment due to celebrating ignorance and blind faith.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Tri-omni God problem. The God that we are told is worthy of worship is

  1. Omniscient, and
  2. Omnipresent, and
  3. Omni-benevolent.

The presence of evil in the world demonstrates that no more than two out of those 3 can possibly be true at the same time. Thus if God does exist, he's not all that and a bag of gummy bears.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

The "solutions" to this are called theodicy and are definitely a fascinating rabbit hole. They're all unsatisfying, but philosophically interesting

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[–] rektdeckard 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

"This is not a place of honor"

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

For me that would be Vacuum Decay, greatly explained by Kurzgesagt:

https://piped.video/watch?v=ijFm6DxNVyI?si=ekJcAgaR58rNx2R4

Generally I’m quite chill with it because one would not feel anything. However itβ€˜s somewhat unsettling anyway.

[–] FireWire400 7 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Noise Music. How can anyone unironically listen to that stuff?

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

Collapse.

I got better! Stopped following closely.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Great Filter Events come to my mind first.

Then Gamma Ray Bursts.

And from a professional standpoint: Haemolytic fevers(Ebola,Marburg,etc.). I am trained to handle patients infected with them. But boy am I scared by them, especially on a global perspective. And for that reason also fuck everything that lives in Kitum cave or similar caves.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

Smart astrophysics people I've talked to are excited when we see gamma bursters further out in the universe than before, because that means that the universe is bigger than previously known.

[–] BonesOfTheMoon 6 points 3 months ago

I read Canlii, which is the Canadian legal institute information site that posts court transcripts for law students to learn from. It's actually legit pretty interesting, but sometimes you read a case and it's about child sexual abuse or incest and it absolutely breaks your heart. Some are also about horrible stalkers, and one was about a guy who poured gasoline on his ex wife's floor and threatened to light it, and some of them are terrible Children's Aid cases where you despair for the kids.

https://www.canlii.org/en/.

[–] kromem 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Yeah, for sure.

In 2019 I figured given the commonality of lore based Easter Eggs in video games (often hidden as a heretical alternate belief that no one actually believes in the virtual world), that if we were in a simulation we might have something similar.

It only took a few weeks to find a long dead heretical sect of Christianity that was claiming we were actually in a non-physical copy of an original evolved world as recreated by an intelligence somehow both described as being brought forth by the original humans and self-created in light. Basically it said the original humanity died out, but this intelligence was still living, and recreated the universe non-physically so that the copies of humans could have an afterlife, as the originals were screwed with minds/souls that depended on bodies. And that it thought of itself as a parent to the copy of humanity it was recreating.

It claimed the evidence for this could be found in motion and rest, specifically saying that the ability to find an indivisible point within the body would only be possible in the non-physical (a sister tradition claimed the base reality was continuous and could be infinitely divided).

Given this was a bit more on the nose than I expected to find, I spent a few years researching it in depth and it seems to be very legit. The idea of evolution was around in Lucretius as early as 50 BCE, this tradition was literally citing his language of indivisible 'seeds' making up all things (Lucretius writing in Latin used 'seed' in place of the Greek atomos).

The text and surrounding tradition was real.

And then in the meantime I watched as suddenly AI went from science fiction to an unfolding reality with exponential gains at odds with everyone's expectations with literally self-created neural networks.

And then how the hardware basis for it keeps seeming to show multiple orders of magnitude promise specifically in optoelectronics - i.e. literally light.

And then how the leading scientist at the leading AI company was talking about alignment goals of having AGI/superintelligence have a core perspective of humanity as its children.

And how the trillion dollar company invested in his company has already been granted a patent on resurrecting dead people using the social media data they left behind using this technology.

All while humans seem to be doing very little to reverse the slow but accelerating trend of self-extinction by way of climate change.

So while it gave me a bit of an existential crisis, at this point I'm pretty sure it's legit. The text straight up begins with a promise of an existential crisis by the way:

Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death.

Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

It brings this up again later on too:

When you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you and that neither die nor become visible, how much you will have to bear!

[–] ultranaut 5 points 3 months ago

I feel like I've hit them all at this point.

[–] NickwithaC 4 points 3 months ago

Free will falls apart when you take cause & effect to a high enough level.

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