this post was submitted on 06 May 2024

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Pokémon Go players are altering public map data to catch rare Pokémon (arstechnica.com)

submitted 7 months ago by jeffw to c/technology

36 comments fedilink hide all child comments

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[–] QuadratureSurfer 184 points 7 months ago

It's worth pointing out that once Pokémon Go players found out about OSM, we saw a massive increase in new users as well as those contributing to OSM so that the maps would better reflect the areas they played in.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/334378297_How_an_augmented_reality_game_Pokemon_GO_affected_volunteer_contributions_to_OpenStreetMap

Unfortunately there are always a few that will try to game any system. In this case they're essentially vandalizing OSM for their own selfish reasons.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I was not aware of this used to open street maps at all. I thought it was based on Google Maps. Still.

[–] [email protected] 88 points 7 months ago (5 children)

If they used Google maps, Niantic would have to pay Google. That's no Bueno. Why pay for content critical to your apps success when you could just freeload on volunteers work instead?

[–] [email protected] 81 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I know this seems like Niantic is free-loading, but this is intentionally-allowed by the ODbL license and honestly, might be a good business decision even without considering the licensing fees. OSM is almost 20 years old and as a community led project, is probably more predictable and stable than a Google license which could change drastically from one contract to the next.

As a OSM contributor, I'm more than happy to see my work used this way, and as @[email protected] pointed out, OSM has seen a lot of benefit too.

[–] Almrond 3 points 7 months ago

Yeah, and the consequence of them using the dataset is massive amounts of people contribute useful data to the project. It is a fair exchange in my opinion. There are lots of reasons to hate Pokemon Go, but this isn't one of them. You can use the maps too, and they are far better as a result of PGO using them.

[–] kamenlady 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Don't get any changes reviewed before , you know, really replacing map data ? I'm just curious. There are a lot of players worldwide, I can imagine the game going strong for another few years and OSM ending up choke full of areas that were pokemon'd and made unusable.

[–] joostjakob 13 points 7 months ago

"Made unusable": that's not how it works. Even with occasional vandalism, there's so much more people positively contributing, that overall the map just keeps on getting better and better.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

I'm a pretty junior contributor (I spent a couple years completing quests on StreetComplete and only have been adding new buildings, etc for a few weeks). I don't know a ton about how the organization is run, so I can only talk from my experiences. I've been able to upload changes which will be live before they will be reviewed. I know there are reviewers who go through areas regularly, but they definitely don't cover everywhere. I'm not sure if OSM has the ability to lockdown areas with frequent vandalism.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

From what I can tell, changes are just uploaded immediately. I think If someone adds wrong data, another contributor can revert it.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

when you could just freeload on volunteers work instead?

Part of -- if not the primary point -- of OSM is that people can use its database in their projects. That's a feature, not a bug. They could have very readily restricted commercial use of the database and chose not to do so.

I would have been far less-willing to contribute if it weren't a resource available to everyone.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Pokemon Go brought more users to OSM, so there was definitely some mutual benefit going on.

Vandals, yes, but plenty of legit contributers, too.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Niantic is a Google spinoff, and the data they generated for Ingress was used for Google Maps. I'm surprised they don't have a special deal with Google.

[–] abhibeckert 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Google doesn't own most of their map data - they license it off other companies that have spent decades and billions of dollars collecting map data from all around the world.

So even if Google gives a project a "special deal" it's still not going to be free. Open Street Map, on the other hand, is totally free. And in some ways it's better than Google Maps — because it has millions of people contributing to the map. No commercial mapping company can come close to the level of detail OSM has. Compare these two screenshots — the Google map has so much less detail it's not even recognisable as the same place. Roads and major features are missing or drawn in the wrong place.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

the Google map has so much less detail

Google maps also has bad data for many places. My home address is the wrong street name. Google maps says it's "Drive", when it's "Court". It's been that way for 22 years apparently. Google is the only one that has it wrong. I've submitted 10 tickets to fix it, they keep denying the change.

Waze, Fixed it myself. OSM, did have it wrong about a year ago (before I moved in) was corrected when apparently a current OSM board member imported a cluster of addresses from the National Address Database.

Apple has it right. Bing maps has it right... Every other source has it right. Google maps just sucks.

What's worse is that many companies use google's dataset for address validation. Since my address doesn't "exist" according to the omniscient google, I'm just screwed when I enter my address on those sites.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Also that you don't want to be depending on Google's products if you don't want to revamp every 2~3 years

[–] kamenlady 6 points 7 months ago

Google Maps Api has been reliable for a very long time.

Google ain't stupid, they know which products they can google around and which not. Google Ads, Analytics and Maps customers are too valuable for them.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago

For anyone else that didn't read the article (or can't hear words in parentheses because they are too quiet):

According to a report from 404 Media, some of those players have been adding fake beaches to OpenStreetMap so they could have easier access to the beach biome in Pokémon Go (though the game Go initially used Google Maps data, it apparently switched to OpenStreetMap at some point in 2017).

[–] [email protected] 36 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (6 children)

It blows my mind people still play this game. It was great, in 2017.

Also doubt this game will be the only source of bad data. We need better safe guards and checks so that some person can't just delete France.

[–] orgrinrt 38 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Now hold on a moment, I think we need to at least discuss this whole removing France thing further…

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It would be easy to accidentally wipe some other country instead of France. That's why we need to verify data

[–] orgrinrt 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I can now see the importance of safeguards!

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

Yeah we need backup systems that automatically wipe out France

[–] abhibeckert 19 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

It was great, in 2017

It hasn't stopped being great. In fact it's better than it ever was.

We need better safe guards and checks so that some person can’t just delete France.

The map is updated millions of times per day. There are checks in place, but minor edits don't get much review especially if it's something simple like "this street has a bus stop". Deleting France, yeah someone would notice that change and block it. Most software doesn't use the realtime map state - they use a slightly older version of the map in part to avoid using a version of the map that has been compromised.

You really only see the current map state if you are editing the map.

[–] jeffw 16 points 7 months ago

“I stopped liking this thing, why doesn’t everyone else agree with me?!?!”

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

They never really dealt with the games biggest issue though and that was the massive battery drain. Once they hype died down it was just a way to kill my phone faster when I'm out and about and will more likely need it before I can charge it again.

[–] Maggoty 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

What's France? All I see on the map is Spain, Germany, and Belgium.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

What's France?

"Wester Germany"

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

More pokemon makes the game objectively better, especially if you care about newer generations for any reason at all

and even if the game hasn't evolved much, a cute game that encourages me and my partner to go on more walks together is a net positive in my life lol

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

It's a game where you walk around and catch pokemon... why where there suddenly cease to be demand for that the premise is great. Not my thing but I get why people are into it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Let's be real, it was mid even back then.

[–] Zoomboingding 6 points 7 months ago

Hard disagree. It got me walking around and exploring my town. It got me in contact with other Pokemon fans. It's added an extra layer of reality on top of everywhere I go - vacations become rare opportunities for indiginous species hunting, which in turn become valuable trade offers.

Exercise is now a game, and I would otherwise be in front of a PC screen.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Why does every article fail to mention that the ingame map only updates once every 3 years or so? And that this griefing is most likely done once per person, until they find out that the game isn't updated? (Because it's not sensational)

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago (2 children)

That doesn’t change the fact that it causes problems for openstreetmap

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

It does not. But it means they are trying to limit the damage caused by griefers, and moreso than just displaying a popup message with "please don't grief openstreetmaps" or something. Imagine how bad it would be if changes to openstreetmaps actually were immediately imported into the game...

[–] hahattpro 8 points 7 months ago

Nothing new. People doing this for years.

I know my neighbour who take photo of the god altar in his house and put as location on google map.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

The game is currently in the process of adding monsters from Scarlet and Violet, and that's where this story begins.

Two of the latest additions to the Pokémon Go roster are Wiglett and Wugtrio, riffs on the designs of Diglett and Dugtrio, who live on beaches and look kind of like garden eels.

OpenStreetMap contributors have discovered "beaches" that were actually located in residential backyards, golf courses, and sports fields.

Entire blog posts, wiki entries, and presentations from OSM mappers exist to bridge the knowledge gap, explaining the purpose of OpenStreetMap data to Pokémon Go users and breaking down Pokémon Go game mechanics for frustrated OSM contributors.

As that OSM blog post implies, not every user who discovers the OpenStreetMap project via Pokémon Go ends up messing with the data.

Though many users are "truth-stretching" vandals who create nonexistent parks, beaches, and footways to encourage specific Pokémon to spawn, others become "very careful, trustworthy" OSM users who "make many worthy additions to the map" by accurately mapping out places where OSM's data is patchy or outdated.

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