this post was submitted on 05 Apr 2024
456 points (99.4% liked)

News

23261 readers
3926 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] reddig33 152 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Greed. Get ready because they’re coming for free public k-12 next.

[–] MeekerThanBeaker 52 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Nah. They just want to cut funding, not cut it completely. They need the dumb kids to grow up to be dumb workers and dumb voters. And to keep their own children in private schools to continue to rule over the poors.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 7 months ago

Ah, but cutting it completely means they could potentially go back to child labour, and they've already been trying to set the ground work for it

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

There's a real and important underlying reason you're completely missing.

[–] damnedfurry 132 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

How Did This Happen?

College loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Simple as that.

With lenders knowing that the government will make sure they get paid, they're happy to loan out any amount of money to anyone regardless of credit worthiness, because they take on literally zero risk.

Then colleges realize the same, and jack up their prices in turn. The feedback loop brings us to where we are today. There is no market (or other) force putting any downward pressure on tuition costs, at all. This is the inevitable result.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

College loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Simple as that.

I forgot, how did that happen already?

[–] captainlezbian 20 points 7 months ago (8 children)

Yes Biden is basically running on the idea of solving a lot of the problems he created. He spent most of his life in government. Those of us who are informed came to terms with that in 2020

load more comments (8 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yes this is generally true but I don't feel like it's fair to the colleges/universities who work to keep tuition and tuition increases in check. There are lots of decent public universities that have more reasonable tuition. The public university in my smallish city is about 10k a year for in-state. Not necessarily saying that's ideal for everyone or cheap but it's a far cry from these places pushing it to 40, 60, 100+k a year.

[–] njm1314 8 points 7 months ago

Also important to point out that we slashed Public Funding of these universities and that's why the prices are going up in large part

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] cowfodder 74 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Ronald Reagan. That's how this happened.

[–] EdibleFriend 43 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

When it comes to Reagan I feel bad for dementia having to be inside him.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm sad that he died unable to remember what a horrible person he was.

[–] EdibleFriend 27 points 7 months ago

He never thought he was horrible, so instead celebrate he was confused and horrified at the end :D

Honestly I can't think of a single other person who I heard about their dementia and thought 'good'

[–] damnedfurry 20 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Not that simple. This got started before he took office, and it culminated long after he was out of office. Way more than one person is to blame.

https://www.tateesq.com/learn/student-loan-bankruptcy-law-history

Student loans first became nondischargeable in bankruptcy in 1976 due to an amendment in the Higher Education Act. Section 439A of this act made student loan debt non-dischargeable until five years after the start of the repayment period, except in cases of undue hardship. Over time, laws were tweaked and widened to reinforce this limitation.

[–] cowfodder 15 points 7 months ago (1 children)

This got started when he went after Berkeley as the candidate for governor of California, then became worse when he was governor, then other governors copied his playbook, then laws were enacted to roll it nationwide, then got worse when he became president. Prior to Reagan becoming governor of California all state universities were free for residents in California. Reagan hated this because it led to poor minorities being able to get an education, and he hated nothing more than he hated poor minorities.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

You listened to this week's Behind the Bastards too?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I was going to start watching that channel when it showed up in my feed, but then I decided against it because I don't want to get more pissed off at everything than I already am.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 41 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Maybe stop paying the coaches so much?

[–] [email protected] 50 points 7 months ago

this is a gross reality no one wants to admit... that the highest paid government officials in some states are coaches for state schools.

we prioritize sports and 'revenue' over education ever time. humans suck

[–] shalafi 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I agree, but that ain't gonna fix $1.7 trillion in student loan debt.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] jeffw 7 points 7 months ago

Eh, that’s only an issue in D1 schools. Many elite universities don’t have that issue and they are still insanely expensive.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Got_Bent 38 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I have accomplished very little in my life.

I have pissed off innumerable people, been ostracized, ghosted, fired, disowned, discarded, and deserved all of it.

I have never lived up to my potential. I've got less than zero ambition.

I have been a historically awful husband and/or boyfriend.

But I accomplished one thing:

I got my daughter through college with no debt.

While she did the work to get admitted and slog through the classes and deal with the remote classroom bullshit of the COVID era, I'm proud that I was able to pull my shit together just long enough to keep writing those godforsaken checks so she will never know the struggle of being shackled to a lifetime of crippling debt.

I did one good thing in this lifetime, and because it gave her opportunity, it was all worth it.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It's stories like this that make me thankful that my children have EU citizenship and will never have to struggle through college debt and neither will we as their parents.

[–] frunch 8 points 7 months ago

It's comments like this that make me happy i didn't have kids (as a usa citizen)

[–] MexicanJoker 7 points 7 months ago

User name checks out

[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

My school was expensive but was marketed as cheaper. It was cheaper through scholarship, factored in Pell grants and did not comsider the extra fees from bureaucracy.

The problem is that when you try to work while paying for school the grants go down and you pay more and still struggle.

While you do this you see your school build a sports stadium and see host extravagant dinners with business clients. You see how much the president or dean makes and how much the professors make.

I gave up and transferred to a non-profit university and the experience was night and day. It was affordable and the staff worked for you.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Look down at community colleges all day but I work with people doing the same job making the same pay (know your rights) but i don't have 35 years of debt.

I got into University - they wanted $8,000/semester. Community College across the street offered 4 year degrees for $1200/semester.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] LordCrom 26 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Because there is no cap on student loans for the most part. Kids who just finished high school are sold on the concept of these loans without knowing what they are really getting into.

If a guy can't legally buy a beer, then they should not legally be allowed to sign up for 6 figure loans either

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago (3 children)

There's literally no market incentives for it to be otherwise. Look at the factors.

50+ years of institutions and borrowers alike trained to believe that education debt is "good debt" that won't hurt them.

"Club ed" arms race of expensive non-education-related amenities, targeting students. Essentially it is marketing costs passed on to the student/borrower.

Heavy subsidization of student loans by state and federal governments.

Laws to make student loans not discharged in bankruptcy.

Constant implication that growing amounts of student debts can or should be "forgiven" by federal programs.

If you are the lending institution or the college, literally all of those factors only incentivize charging more.

Driving prices down would require meaningful competition or a feasible alternative. I have encouraged hiring managers to look at alternative credentialing and training for this reason. No bachelors degree is worth going $200k+ in debt for.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Regarding your last point, I was an IT manager for a decade and hired many people. I saw no difference in the skill set between a community college grad with an Associate's and a grad with a Bachelor's from a prestigious university. The vast majority of skills simply don't translate from university to real life, so I don't understand why we still hold them so highly in IT. I can't speak to other fields, though.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 20 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

And people who actually do most of the work (aka grad students) are still not getting a living wage.

Support striking grad workers everyone! Search for the currently striking school, and donate to their strike fund if you can: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=support+grad+worker+strike&ia=web

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Veneroso 18 points 7 months ago

It all started when they outlawed bankruptcy discharging student loans. Cry and cry over "Lawyers will graduate from college then immediately declare bankruptcy on $5000 loans!". Then, when they captured the students in inescapable debt, convinced everyone that college was the answer, and then Sallie May being put in charge of defaulted loans.... being paid to collect.... Federally guaranteed money.... It's like getting paid to get paid, perfect racket!

[–] Etterra 15 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Greed. It happened because for-profit schools are allowed to exist.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] RemoveEgoDivineFreedom 11 points 7 months ago (9 children)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–] Linkerbaan 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

People finding out why religions banned usury

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] chonglibloodsport 9 points 7 months ago

It’s administrative bloat. All that money isn’t going to hire more professors. It’s going to pay for non-faculty admin staff who provide services to students and work to attract students to the school. Schools are in competition with each other and the trend has been towards providing an all-encompassing luxury experience. While at many schools the fancy buildings may be paid for in whole or in part by donations from rich people, government grants, or other non-tuition sources (endowment), the staffing and maintenance of these buildings is paid for by tuition.

Ultimately, what it comes down to is that students comparison shop four-year luxury “Club Ed” vacations, paid for with borrowed money. That student loans are available without collateral or credit history and automatically approved is a huge part of the problem. If the flow of money dries up, the bloat goes with it. But in the mean time only rich people would have access to an education.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

We as an entire community, species even, let it happen.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Breezy 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

I came up with a plan to lower college tuition years ago while tripping. It starts with the decriminalization of all drugs. And to prevent gangs and what not from profiting colleges will get the exclusive privilege of making and selling all drugs. Drug proceeds would be split between lowering tuition, setting up more college ran centers, and rehabilitation of drug users outside the colleges programs. With a small percentage allowed for the college to profit.

For the program itself, i would have the colleges set up drug manufacturing classes which should benefit students in other chemist and medical fields so it should draw in quite a few people. With the drugs made they then would be sold by college ran businesses whicj could also employ students to have on the job experience and to keep more money in the colleges sphere of influence.

At these centers where drugs are sold, there will also be areas for people to partake in the more dangerous drugs, which should be inheritly safer now that its not being tainted with other nonsense. There would be medical students watching and taking care of their patients making another facet of experience that will help in future jobs.

With all this taking place in the college system, and with plenty of opportunities to view patients, it should be easy to spot people who are in a real bad place that would benefit from health and life counseling. So for the people in need of help, counselors will approach giving an offer to participate in a program to train psychology students that comes with a heavy discount for their drugs while in the program.

My whole idea had several beneficial aspects for all of the country.

Lower colleges tuition

Raising the educational level of general poplus

Lower drug dependencies rates

Lower crime rates

Getting people help who need it

Reduction of drug over doses

Less burdens on are justice system clogged up with drug related crimes

Hampering outside nations who push dirty cheap drugs into our country

Extra tax money

Etc

Idk if anyone has any comments on my wistful thinking, but im open to revisions of my plan.

TLDR: Decrimnalize drugs and make collegese create dispense and sell said drugs to fund the well being of our society.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago

This is a very American answer. The easy and best solution is to tax the ultra rich and provide college to all Americans.

[–] SendMePhotos 24 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Jesus fucking christ this is the stupidest shit with the purest potential. I've never loved and hated anything so equally. I'm left completely indifferent.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›