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It's a great recommendation to use app-based 2FA, except that lots of services seem to insist on and only offer SMS OTP.
For instance out of all the financial establishments I do business with, only one offers the option. The big name players don't, it's only some tiny little mom & pop CU that does.
It's very much a business adoption issue.
App-based is also unacceptable if it’s a proprietary implementation
TOTP/HOTP are the best standards right now
I like a combo of Yubikey and Bitwarden, personally.
Yeah, Yubikey fits - it implements TOTP/HOTP, and bitwarden is great
Just “app-based” worried me about apps rolling their own implementations instead of using standards
Have you ever used HOTP before? Convenience-wise, it's much worse than TOTP. It's not supported by popular apps, you can't use it on several devices unless there's synchronization, you never know if the code you're looking at was used already.
Yeah, it’s much less convenient. I prefer TOTP, but I will pick HOTP over Cisco Duo’s proprietary implementation that I can’t use without their specific app if those are my only options
It's infuriating that my bank still uses SMS 2FA.
It's a circus out there...
One of my financial institutions supports yubikeys, but does not have the option to turn off sms 2fa. A chain is as strong as the weakest link, as usual.
Another only has sms 2fa and bizarrely allows me to specify any phone number at login time to receive the code. WTF?
Most only have 2fa via sms. When you talk about using an authenticator app people bitch and moan because they have to cut and paste those digits into the login page. Oh, the humanity...
Don't even get me started on sites with "roll your own" schemes, like forcing you to install their app (which requires all permissions under the sun) just to accept a push message and allow you to login on their website.
What if you don't have an Android or Apple smartphone, or refuse to get one on privacy concerns?
I know SMS isn't very secure, but how is one supposed to use 2FA if they can't, or won't, accept spyware to do so?
A lot of services now accept physical security keys for logging in. These keys use FIDO similar to how a phone-based passkey works. You just plug the dude in and then you are good to go.
Obviously not every company works with these just yet, but a lot of major companies do. Honestly most of the big tech companies support them.
GitHub and Bitwarden are the two I’m immediately thinking of, but that’s likely because I just used my passkey for those lol.
It’s way more secure than SMS MFA, and I prefer it to a phone app because I don’t have to look at then enter a code while hoping the time doesn’t run out for that code, forcing me to wait for a new one.
That's fine if you don't want to use a smartphone, but SMS should not be the only option available. They should provide multiple options for 2FA so customers can choose what they are comfortable with.
You can use TOTP 2FA on a browser too, there’s plugins for it. It’s not some super secret algorithm, smartphone apps are just the most common way of handling it. I suppose there’s progress to be made in terms of accessibility and education for the general public in terms of options for TOTP.
Mine uses SMS 2FA AND had a 16-character password limit. I need to switch banks already. Any suggestions for a decent bank or credit union that uses modern password cryptography and app-based TOTP?
Well Capital One still uses SMS 2FA ... BUT if you're going to be using budget apps they allow OAuth which was the big selling point for me (i.e. not giving my bank account password to a third party)
SMS 2FA is dumb, but I thought 16 characters are okay right now. Does the bank have too many password mistakes will block you for a certain time period enabled?
They're good as long as there aren't any limits on characters you can use.
Some people like to use passphrases. But honestly, the gold standard is a password manager with randomized strings.
Aegis Authenticator, in case someone was wondering what to use
I still use Authy, I know it's frowned upon in the privacy community but it's worked well enough for me so far. With them shutting down their desktop app though I see no reason not to switch to Aegis at some point in the near future. Just a pain in the backside setting it all up again as Authy doesn't let you export your 2FA.
I'm not that tech savy, so I was under the impression sms 2FA was the best way to go - why is app based authentication better?
Someone already explained it, but here's a ranking of the different methods which are commonly used in terms of security, from bad to good:
On top of all the other good answers, someone can also just SIM hijack your phone number by social engineering your phone provider into activating a new SIM card.
And it's usually much easier than one would think/hope.
SMS-based can be intercepted, while app-based are calculated on your phone. If you're using SMS -based, all someone needs to do is take over your phone, and they're getting your 2FA codes. Here's how easy that is: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lc7scxvKQOo
Cause SMS is not encrypted, so your phone provider and any routing company like this one can read your texts, phone numbers can be spoofed (not sure about this one), or stolen via social engineering (someone calls your phone provider claiming it's you and u lost your phone or something, then gets access to your number).
There's probably a lot more issues with it, i don't remember them atm, but should be pretty easy to find with a search if you're still curious.
Also, physical phone stolen, and the thief just pops the simcard out and puts it in another phone.
oh so even this bullshit that's 20 times more annoying isn't secure? good good
it's sms 2fa, it was never secure. We've had reports of sms 2fa being bypassed for over a decade, but those were mostly sim swap attacks.
Unless your code is being generated locally, it's not secure. Email has the same problem because that can be hijacked to intercept the code. A hardware dongle or TOTP app are the only real secure options for 2fa IMHO.
Yep SMS two factor authentication usage was officially suggested to no longer utilize by NIST in 2016, and in practice before that, to your point.
This shit is old, people! It's trivial to compromise. Start transitioning where you can to passkeys and start using an app based MFA, like Duo or Authy, both free.
My bank literally said no. I asked about using a yubikee or something like Google authenticator and they literally said, enable a pass phrase. That's what they told me.
Oh boy! Can't wait to get another year of credit monitoring! /s
Well at least they SEALED it and nobody captured the information when it was live because of course they did and you can't fix something like this after the damage is done.
DON'T WORRY EVERYONE!
Why tf Google is outsourcing security?
Google is not a mobile phone network provider. SMS routing is not really their cup of tea. It is an industry with lots of established players, lota of local issues, and little to gain for Google. If it where up to Google, everyone would be using their app instead of SMS.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Asian technology and internet company YX International manufactures cellular networking equipment and provides SMS text message routing services.
Anurag Sen, a good-faith security researcher and expert in discovering sensitive but inadvertently exposed datasets leaking to the internet, found the database.
Two-factor authentication (2FA) offers greater protection against online account hijacks that rely on password theft by sending an additional code to a trusted device, such as someone’s phone.
Two-factor codes and password resets, like the ones found in the exposed database, typically expire after a few minutes or once they are used.
But codes sent over SMS text messages are not as secure as stronger forms of 2FA — an app-based code generator, for example — since SMS text messages are prone to interception or exposure, or in this case, leaking from a database onto the open web.
When asked by TechCrunch, the YX International representative said that the server did not store access logs, which would have determined if anyone other than Sen discovered the exposed database and its contents.
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