this post was submitted on 11 Jan 2024
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Innovation in Japan: McDonald's installs phone cleaning devices. Kills 99.9% of germs within 30 seconds while customers wash their hands - VIDEO (ua-stena.info)
submitted 11 months ago by Interesting_news to c/technology
49 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

McDonald’s installs phone cleaning devices.

The systems operate on the basis of ultraviolet technology.

These systems, powered by ultraviolet technology, destroy up to 99.9% of germs within 30 seconds while customers wash their hands.

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[–] JackFrostNCola 33 points 11 months ago (2 children)

So im no tech expert but a couple issues i see off the bat:

  • relying on a mechanism to pull in and spit out your phone seems ripe for a failure where the phone gets jammed/caught/sterliser breaks mid-operation and your phone is stuck. Maybe instead have a shelf that you put you phone on and then a cover just swings/drops over it but you can physically just lift the cover up to remove the phone.
  • entry slot is in the surface of the bench, directly next to the sink, where any overflow or splashing will have water drop directly down into steriliser and phone.
  • having a device in a public place (with no cameras, because bathroom) is a perfect place for someone malicious to affix a NFC (or similar tech) scanner to read data from/send data to your phone.
[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago (1 children)

For every country I’ve lived in outside of Japan, I think these would be valid concerns.

[–] timetraveller 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Was going to say, it seems as though people in Japan, just use tech differently.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I found that people are more group-minded in Japan. Television and schools have less emphasis on direct punishment (like getting removed from the classroom and receiving detention), and a greater one on humiliation (like getting singled out by your teacher for something to be laughed at by your classmates).

In the west, comedians who say/do really naughty things that would get them in trouble get a lot of laughs because of its absurdity (and they risk getting in trouble). You often see a lot of disclaiming in western standup. In Japan, it’s the comedians who act in humiliating ways that get more laughs. Interestingly enough, you frequently see angry tantrums as something to laugh at. So if you want to be a funny person, you don’t break things, you do something to humiliate yourself. Otherwise, if you lash out in anger for any reason, you might get laughed at.

So with regards to vandalizing a sanitation machine in a McDonalds, unless it’s a specific trend on TikTok, I just don’t think a vandal would get much out of it.

[–] d3Xt3r 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

IT guy here, the NFC thing isn't really a concern (NFC doesn't work that way) or for that matter, any other wireless technology, as it'll need to authenticate with your phone somehow. If you can somehow simply scan data from a phone without any form of authentication, that would be a massive security hole - something that would be patched by the vendors real quick. Also, if something like that were possible then the TSA/FBI wouldn't have any issues pulling data from locked phones. Think of all the times you've had to put your phone thru the xray machines at the airports. Also see the case of FBI vs Apple for instance.

The other issues you've mentioned are valid though. Heck my Galaxy Fold won't even fit in that slot.

[–] JackFrostNCola 3 points 11 months ago

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I just thought that i can use contactless pay with my phone if its unlocked just by tapping the eftpos machine but i suppose people wouldnt be putting their phones in there unlocked generally.

[–] MisterChief 22 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's really cool. I already foresee Americans intentionally breaking them and finding ways for people to get their phones stuck in there to be assholes and for internet likes.

[–] Meron35 28 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Some Australian cities installed usb charging ports on their bus fleets. They were filled with chewing gum within a week

[–] scarilog 6 points 11 months ago

Qi chargers are the way to go imo. Make it out of some nice hard plastic and much more difficult to vandalize.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

So many bathrooms in Japan don't even have hand soap or toilet paper. I can't possibly imagine this taking off.

[–] DingoBilly 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

?

I didn't have this issue at all when I visited. Although maybe you're talking more rural than touristy places..

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

No, I lived in Japan and have visited all over. It's more an issue in men's bathrooms than in women's to not have soap, based on my conversations. In women's bathrooms, it's common to not have toilet paper, and people carry around tissues. This is more of a city thing than a rural thing. In the cities, people pass out tissue packets with advertisements in them (as a job) and people carry those around and use them in the restrooms.

Edit: It might be the case that places which have more tourists don't have this problem as much. That's still not my experience, however.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Ten years in Osaka here. I don’t recall this ever being an issue.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

I was just in Japan for about 4 months, mostly Tokyo. Id say somewhere around a quarter of public men's rooms I used didn't have soap dispensers. Taiwan was worse though - most baffling was the lack of soap on my plane to and from Taipei

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

As I recall when I lived near Shizuoka, Osaka had a reputation for going their own way. The main difference I remember is getting off the train and everyone walked to the other side than typically done elsewhere. I would have liked more time in Osaka, it seemed more vibrant and open in some ways.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

People are generally more open in Osaka and the food is excellent, if you go just a few streets off the key tourist traps..

[–] [email protected] -2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Japan is doing it No way it works here

What? Am I not understanding you correctly?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No. The article is about Japan and I commented about Japan.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And you were being sarcastic? Otherwise I still don't understand ^^

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Wow, since you explained your point this well, I now totally get it /s

Nvm I guess

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago

I'm sorry you don't understand, but that's really on you.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

Because it’s in Japan, I’d probably use it. If this was in New York, I probably wouldn’t be in that bathroom in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

That's weird, there's a place 10 minutes away from me (W Europe) that has them installed in the bathrooms.

It's just a slot in which you put your phone. You wait for it to beep and you take it out again. Ideally while you're washing your hands.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

How well is that actually going to work? UVC sterilization usually takes much longer than 30 seconds.

[–] thrawn 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

WOTA claims 99.9% sterilization via UV-C. Does Japan have false advertising laws? I genuinely don’t see how it can be that fast, but like, it would be dumb to make difficult-to-believe claims if you could be sued for it.

Anyway, mostly unrelated, I used one of these there and I didn’t care if it was that effective. Wasn’t gonna be holding my phone for that span, so any sterilization is nice.

[–] LordKitsuna 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Just because you don't see how it can be that fast doesn't mean you should immediately jump to false advertising. Think of it like cooking chicken to a safe temperature, you can do it sous vide at a lower temperature and still get safe chicken it'll just take 8 hours or you can throw it in an incinerator at a thousand degrees and have it sterilized in a few seconds.

Sterilized is more than just the amount of time it's also the amount of exposure, an extremely strong UV light needs significantly less time than a weaker one

[–] thrawn 2 points 11 months ago

Oh lol. I said that cause I was inclined to believe it due to false advertising laws. Hence, it would be dumb to make such a grand claim and open yourself up to liability [if it weren’t true]. The anecdote after was worded as mostly unrelated because it wasn’t about the effectiveness, but the convenience of the little unit

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

It’s dose dependent not just time dependent. LED uv-c emitters can pump a huge dose onto a surface from a short distance such as this device does.

This recent study showed viral inactivation using such shorter time frames.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8950158/

[–] werefreeatlast 6 points 11 months ago

I'll "clean" your device! Just let me handle it for a few seconds...have you installed my app yet? It gives me...you, roo...hmmm cool powers and access to the cleaning system interface...yeah that's right, I need access to the cleaning interface.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

is the remaining 0.01% of bacteria becoming superbugs?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It says UV so probably not. Otherwise we'd already be fucked from sunlight and Instagram models tanning.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

that sounds plausible, how is it different with UV?

[–] herrvogel 16 points 11 months ago

Drugs kill germs by messing with their biological systems. They target specific processes, like preventing enzyme from properly bonding so that it fails to do something important in the reproductive cycle or whatever. If a new generation of bacteria evolve such that that specific process works differently, it could kill the effectiveness of the drug. And that's what happens when something becomes resistant to a certain drug. Suddenly the aforementioned enzyme and the reproductive cycle are ever so slightly different, and as a result the drug can't do what it used to do, at least not as effectively.

But UV just straight up breaks up the bonds between molecules. There's nothing biological about it, its destruciveness is entirely physical. The photons get in there and start destroying molecules, living or not. It's not easy or likely at all for a strain of bacteria to randomly evolve resistance against physical destruction at a molecular level. They're generally too small to have a protective layer to shield them against that, like our skin does.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

I've seen these being marketed as the big new thing for ages. I think they had some on Shark Tank. Covid probably helped them along.

[–] x4740N 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No thanks, I'd rather bring my own knowing what people would stick in there and there's the risk of it stealing your phone if it malfunctions

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

and there’s the risk of it stealing your phone if it malfunctions

You wouldn’t just go to the staff and ask them to open it up for you? lol.

[–] x4740N 1 points 11 months ago

That depends on how the phone cleaning things are designed

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It's cool, I want to know how it works! But I don't trust it. All it takes is an accidental moment of suction to destroy a microphone or moisture seal. Or maybe someone accidentally dropped a bobby pin or something in there that could damage the charging port? That's all it would take to basically ruin my phone...

I also don't trust the employees to care or know how to safely remove a phone if a motor died or the building lost power... But I realize I'm paranoid! 🤷‍♂️

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

It's a bit narrow with lots of moving parts. Maybe a clamshell setup would be easier and more usable with different phone sizes / accessories?

[–] DBT 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Not sticking my phone in there.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

But but.... It was made for me! Th-this is my hole!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Who are you that is so wise in the ways of not sticking things into anonymous slots?

[–] bruhduh 1 points 11 months ago

Ooooooh iPhone 4s long time no see

[–] shadow_wanker -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Seems like a solution in search of a problem.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

For many, if not most Japanese people, bacteria existing is a problem in need of a solution. Even when COVID restrictions lifted, people were more than happy to keep their masks on for months. I’m not living there anymore, but most shops had hand sanitizers installed at their entrance, and I know a lot of people don’t want those to ever go away.

[–] Coreidan -4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Does McDonalds have a device for eating my ass? They should work on that next.

[–] LordKitsuna 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

A bidet that utilizes heated water will likely give a somewhat similar sensation to a wet tongue. Whether or not any McDonald's out there have those installed I don't know

[–] Coreidan 1 points 11 months ago

Sounds like a no then. Either they eat my ass or not